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Post by serffarmer on Dec 3, 2020 20:34:44 GMT -6
We are looking for a new air compressor for the shop and just wondering what guys are using. Thinking Of going with an 80 gallon two stage pump. Needs to be single phase and would like to be able to plug into same plug with a 40 amp breaker. Vertical style just seems nicer to set up and service etc but our shop is very small so thinking of putting a horizontal one up on a stand to save on floor space. What’s the best way to set it up? Want to be able to run a one inch impact but maybe could get away with 60 gallon tank? Looked at a Quincy that Peavey mart has and looks like a nice unit. Anybody running one of those ? Anything to watch out for?
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Post by torriem on Dec 3, 2020 21:06:24 GMT -6
Also interested in this! I think I'd like a horizontal unit also which I would put on an upper shelf in my pallet racking.
What kind of plumbing are people using to run air lines these days? I know pvc pipe is not recommended (can shatter). The special PEX stuff is a bit pricey and only rated to 100 psi. My current compressor is two stage and goes to 160 psi, although most tools want only 100 psi.
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Post by meskie on Dec 3, 2020 21:15:58 GMT -6
We have an upright 80 gallon one. It was from Acklands. Can’t remember the CFM of it but have never ran it out of air.
We built a shop last year and the plumbers used a high psi pex pipe to plumb for air. I think it’s rated for 300psi working pressure. So far so good. Our compressor runs 135-175psi. One inch pipe around the top of the shop and 3/4” drops where we have air reels and regulators with a few different couplers if we need to run a couple hoses.
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Post by torriem on Dec 3, 2020 21:32:10 GMT -6
What CFM are you shooting for, serffarmer ? I found some expensive screw compressors that can give you 175 psi at the full rated 16.6 CFM. Would be perfect for running a shop-load of air tools. That's likely overkill. I'm not sure what our current CFM is, but it's a 5 hp dual-stage compressor and 60 gallon tank. It's served us well and I think I'll keep running it. The more I think about it, really all I use air for these days is blowing stuff off (and we plan to buy a 185 CFM diesel compressor to blow off combines) and airing up tires. Our air impact guns and other air tools are rarely used anymore. My 3/4" 18V Milwaukee impact driver will remove semi lug nuts. Mind blowing. That pex stuff sounds good to me. I think I'll do something similar. Any idea what it's called or where to find it? EDIT: I think it can be found generically as PEX-AL-PEX. Typically rated to 200 psi operating. Smaller stuff is used in in-floor heating. There is a brand called Durotec which makes some air line, but it's expensive, like $4 a foot. |
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Post by serffarmer on Dec 3, 2020 21:57:11 GMT -6
I’m not quite sure actually on the CFM. In the early stage of looking and don’t know a lot about what these 1 inch impacts and other tools need for air I just know our old compressor doesn’t come close to cutting it haha. Yeah I don’t think I can justify a screw type compressor but they are for sure the fastest and quietest. Just want to get something quality and not Chinese garbage if that is even possible... That’s crazy that Milwaukee can crank off a semi lug nut! Don’t know if I’ve heard a bad thing about Milwaukee actually.
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Post by Albertabuck on Dec 3, 2020 22:11:45 GMT -6
Most important thing to avoid is a machine that creates CFM with speed, you want one that does it with displacement. Seldom long life is seen from a head run at very high speed.
Also, pay attention to the pressure for which the CFM is rated, often it is for lower than one might expect, its kind of an advertising trick.
IMO avoid anything direct drive or oil less.
There isn't a whole lot of manufacturers of heads, kind of like household appliances, same manufacturer but several brand names on the sticker.
Cambell Hausfield is about one of the most common in light industrial and consumer grade.
My advice for most applications, is instead of seeking high CFM, you are better off to increase storage. But if you really want high CFM for like painting ect, then you are looking at a very expensive machine, which should give good life and service. To try to get this from a cheap high RPM one usually don't end well.
For most shop work I have never run short of air with my old Speedair, built with Cambell Hausfield components, 5hp on 220, 60 gal tank upright. Paid $469 on special preorder thru Alberta Tool Liquidators back in about 1993, still purrs like a kitty to this day. Puts out about 10 CFM at 90psi. I often have an additional portable 40 gallon tank connected with a hose into the system for extra reservoir if I am doing a lot of air work inside the shop. That helps a lot with impacts and more.
I lucked out and picked up an awesome old LeRoi Dresser three cylinder two stage with diesel power and trailer mounted for $200 at a local sale, was former municipal machine for sandblasting bridges I was told. But for blowing off equipment and such, instead of spending huge money on a shop machine, get a normal sized one for the shop, then get a portable screw or large reciprocating like I did for the real heavy stuff.
Even some of them higher capacity wheel barrow portables work ok for blowing off stuff, are nice to handle and brand new under 2K for good one. I have one rated for about 12 CFM, 5hp genuine red Honda, twin vee cylinder single stage, forget the brand of the head, but its US made. That been a handy thing to have for sure.
The way that big bugger of mine is rigged up, I figure its putting out about 75 CFM, never mind when blowing off machinery, where that baby shines is on the diaphram pump when I am fixing a tractor tire, wowsers that works great but that little three cylinder Shibaura barking away with a straight pipe is hard on the ears lol.
As for plumbing, big thing to keep in mind with piping or hoses and fittings, if you gonna run things like 3/4 or 1" impacts, you need lots of air, and min 1/2 or preferably 3/4 line to feed them so they get enough. And that includes the ID of the fittings, so often you see guys have large hoses with the wrong fittings which work just like an orifice and restrict flow.
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Post by torriem on Dec 3, 2020 22:26:30 GMT -6
I probably sound like a fan boy but if you take the $2 or $3k you would spend on a compressor and buy a bunch of Milwaukee 18V tools and batteries (or the high-end DeWalt or Makita), you will find you don't hardly use the air compressor for tools anymore! These tools have really changed the way we work. You could never have convinced me even a few years ago that a battery-operated impact wrench would replace our air-powered ones. Yet here we are. Air tools are just backups now. I think they still work, but we haven't used them in three years now.
Battery-operated weed whipper and chainsaw are two tools you wouldn't think would make sense, but we use them quite often in the summer.
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Post by meskie on Dec 3, 2020 22:47:00 GMT -6
We have a bunch of Milwaukee tools but for lots of repeated use I still grab my air impact. It’s lighter more powerful and doesn’t run low on power. But it sure is nice not dragging out the air hose for a couple of bolts or a tire.
It’s also nice having a bigger compressor to fill tires with.
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Post by northernfarmer on Dec 3, 2020 22:59:36 GMT -6
AB, I'd think that 5hp shop compressor would be putting out more then that, could be wrong though. I believe my 5 hp two stage ( unfortunately only a 60 gal tank ) puts out around that 17 cfm at 175 psi. That might sound ok but I find in practice that its not nearly enough for some of the things I want or try to do. Examples is sand blasting with a pressured tank sand system as it requires more then what the compressor puts out. A 3/4 drive impact like I have takes 32 cfm and it doesn't take long to run the pressure down if working on just one wheel end and looking up specs for a 1 inch drive Ingersollrand model for example that has been around for years ( extended anvil ) it takes around 45 cfm and a high powered 1 inch drive would take in that 60+ cfm. Another example is using a die grinder and its something that can be used for for extended periods of time and no way is my compressor capable of that, sure its fine for shorter jobs that don't take long but otherwise its a lot of waiting for the pressure to build up again. And if you were into painting you would need a very fancy air dryer, not just some little filter system as that isn't going to cut it at all. So all depends on what your plans are for it but like AB said about air capacity, the larger the tank or multiple tanks you can utilize the better as you store up the air and can get performance out of your 1 inch impact for example for long enough that it can do a truck wheel end and not have to wait. When looking at some air tool specs they like to use "average cfm air consumption" which is some bogus figure they dreamed up which includes a lot of wait time between short uses of air.
If money were no object I would say by all means buy a screw compressor and some of them are set up with very good air dryers on them as the customers that buy them are looking for a unit that run constantly and give them perfectly dry air and they are very quiet as piston compressors are anything but quiet !. But being realistic with costs I would say get no less then a 5 hp two stage compressor with an 80 gallon tank and that its a proper 5 hp motor that runs at 1750 and stay away from those fast running piles of junk with their stupid 6 hp ratings on a 3450 rpm motor and yet the compressor can't hold a candle volume wise to a proper slower running two stage compressor. Surffarmer, look into what gauge of wire is on that circuit ( has to be a dedicated circuit for only the compressor ) as depending on what gauge wire and how long the wire is from the breaker panel you may be able to install a larger breaker if for instance its a 10 gauge wire. A 5 hp compressor with the decent 1750 motor is probably going to want no less then a 50 amp breaker and does indeed require at least 10 gauge wire ( that is what I am using ), yes maybe a 40 amp breaker would work but would still have to have 10 gauge wire if its the type of compressor I am speaking of.
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Post by northernfarmer on Dec 3, 2020 23:21:59 GMT -6
It was mentioned about filling tires, that is where not only cfm ( and tank size ) come into play but pressure differential with pressures set where the compressor kicks in at least at 145 ( cutout 175 ) and are not pissing around right at 100 psi truck tire pressure to get it inflated to that, been there done that years back.
I have a 1/2 Milwaukee impact and sure is nice to walk across the yard and do something a bit or even in the shop, definitely out in the field etc but its not up to the task of truck wheel ends or I sure don't find it so other then if the lug nuts are cracked loose by hand or an air tool already as its going to blow it up if put to uses like that for any period of time. I can see at least needing a 3/4 or preferably the 1" drive that Milwaukee has out to expect doing a lot of wheel ends with battery power.
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Post by Albertabuck on Dec 4, 2020 9:03:55 GMT -6
NF, no that old one of mine is only around 10, and that rating is at 90psi, I remember that and hey even still have the catalogue somewhere when it was on the cover lol, gotta remember that dates back before they wound them out, and I am quite certain a big reason that it is still going all these years later. That was a big compressor back in the day. Nowadays its no more about quality but CFM, which IMO for a lot of applications is greatly over emphasized and over rated. If you are doing work where you need something that puts out a lot of CFM at high pressure, then you need to step up to Gardner Denver and such and get a real compressor, but hokysmokes, now you are into some serious coin.
I'm not saying some of the larger lower end machines are no good, but longevity does seem to become an issue with so many of them if they really get used.
Funny how the mind works, Sanborn is a name that just popped into my mind, used to be quality stuff, not sure if they still are or not.
No matter the brand, make sure it has steel sleeves and if its a larger unit, it should also have pressurized lubrication.
Oh and I gotta say those new electric guns are amazing, don't own one but have seen them in motion and I was more than impressed with what they were able to do.
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Post by northernfarmer on Dec 4, 2020 10:15:11 GMT -6
Funny you should mention both Alberta Liquidators and Sanborn because that is the brand and where the compressor I have came from and I've lost track as to what year that would have been, way back in the mid 1980's . That outlet was selling a lot of stuff there for a while and sure, they had crap tools too but this compressor has been good and was not cheap even back then. Being that its an upright compressor its really top heavy with that cast compressor and proper sized electric motor so a bad point about uprights but they certainly do save floor space.
My nephew just this year bought a DV compressor which is sold by Gardener Denver and not sure if they make them or that is another brand they handle. Anyway its there baby unit which is a 5 hp rotary screw on a 60 gallon tank and his has the fancy air dryer with auto drain and so forth and equipped that way it was 7500.00 . Of all things its sitting in his basement and its so quiet they can't hear it at all upstairs with the basement door closed and he said with the proper air dryer he required along with a thumper compressor he was getting well up in price anyway and with a compressor that is not continuous duty like this DV unit. But it only goes to 145 psi I believe and at that pressure is rated 16 cfm. Its being used to run a fancy CNC milling machine as they require clean dry air and a constant supply of it.
One of my friends has a well used 1/2 milwaukee impact and watching him first hand struggling some to keep it running tuned me into what ends up happening with some battery powered tools that have vibration hammer through them, the battery mount and connections get hammered out and at some point the tool is garbage. I see that Milwaukee with their second generation 1 inch drive impact has a whole new battery system with an isolator system to help reduce the vibration fed into the battery connection. That is one of the the downsides of battery systems, they change them and what one had becomes obsolete where as an air tool requires air and doesn't give a crap how old it is. Each tool type has its place for sure.
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Post by northernfarmer on Dec 4, 2020 11:54:35 GMT -6
This is a rather long video but may get a guy thinking in terms of what size and type of compressor makes the most sense and the air quality the system produces. Interesting about the certain type of screw compressor ( I believe that would be a variable drive unit ) that limits the maximum amperage startup requirement.
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Post by Albertabuck on Dec 4, 2020 18:32:23 GMT -6
We are looking for a new air compressor for the shop and just wondering what guys are using. Thinking Of going with an 80 gallon two stage pump. Needs to be single phase and would like to be able to plug into same plug with a 40 amp breaker. Vertical style just seems nicer to set up and service etc but our shop is very small so thinking of putting a horizontal one up on a stand to save on floor space. What’s the best way to set it up? Want to be able to run a one inch impact but maybe could get away with 60 gallon tank? Looked at a Quincy that Peavey mart has and looks like a nice unit. Anybody running one of those ? Anything to watch out for? Was in Westlock today to pickup a cattle cheque and some other business, as always ended up at Peavy and while making the rounds I thought of you and your compressor when I saw the ones they had on display. Was only one Quincy, blue, short fat tank, did have a two stage twin cylinder head and about an 8hp motor as I recall. And a 4K price tag. Is that the one you are thinking of? I spent a few minutes trying to look at things on it, but unfortunately the way it was positioned made it hard to really get close. I was trying to find some casting marks or such that would identify the make of the head, I didn't see any. I couldn't get a straight look at it, but I noticed the motor only had a sticker not a stamped metal tag on it, to me it looked like a Chinese motor, also had the European safety approval markings along with CSA on that sticker. Unfortunately I couldn't get right in close enough to read everything on that sticker. But even the motor starter box included looked Chinese, not AllenBradley or such that one normally sees. They are running about a two to one or higher reduction on the belt drive I would guess, so at least they aren't running the pump at 3K like some do. I don't want to overly criticize the machine without knowing everything for fact, but based on what I seen here is my thoughts...lots of tags saying Made in USA...I think its more "assembled" in the USA with outside components. Thats another gimick some brands use to capitalize on the former quality of USA products. And I have never seen a good quality industrial motor without a stamped metal tag. And at the 4K they are asking for it, not a machine I would be buying. But thats all based on a quick look and personal preferences. 4K will buy you a lot of compressor if you do some looking for a good used one. Heck you can get a portable screw used for that too. But don't let me rain on your parade if thats the one you want, as I emphasized, I make these comments based on limited facts, not my normal style lol. |
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Post by serffarmer on Dec 4, 2020 18:56:42 GMT -6
Thanks for the great information guys it is really appreciated!
AB I think that one I looked in Peavey Mart was an 80 gallon 7.5 hp two stage. Price tag was either 32 or 3600. I Only had a fast look also as my kids were with me. Definitely not set on that one I wanted to learn a bit more before I buy anything. Nothing worse then spending a bunch of cash and realizing after the fact it’s not what u need. Would prefer a baldor motor, have a fair number of them around here and they have been pretty good.
Nf I haven’t had a chance to watch that video yet but will tonight. Thanks again guys
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