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Post by northernfarmer on Dec 4, 2020 19:12:14 GMT -6
I didn't realize Peavy sold anything larger then smallish compressors. I honestly don't know what to say about Quincy compressors as of now, they use to at least be a good name in compressors and if most of that quality still remains even though I fully expect some components or maybe a lot of them are made over in China. Its hard to sort out the good from the bad with all these musical chairs of companies that switch ownership and factories. This link is from a forum 10 years ago and talking about Quincy as indeed there is China in the mix. I see Peavy also handles the true two stage 5 horse unit which I will link and the 7.5 HP unit is also as AB was looking at, also see a cheaper 5 hp fast running motor unit that I would stay away from. Speaking of brands, Ingersollrand was a great brand at one time and may still be on larger compressors but I know in the last years reading about the smaller units ( like the size we are talking about ) have poor reputations so I read, basically chinese crap with a good name thrown on them so sadly one has to beware of good brand names sneaking in crap into their lineup of offerings. DV which I mentioned before is made in Berrie Ontario but again I don't know if they are sourcing parts from elsewhere or not. Sad where things have gone as they have as its a guessing game like throwing darts at a board and hoping for the best.
5 HP two stage with 1725 rpm motor ( on sale at the moment at Peavy )
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Post by shmiffy on Dec 4, 2020 21:16:02 GMT -6
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Post by Beerwiser on Dec 4, 2020 21:56:14 GMT -6
So I need to throw a wrench into everything lol. I haven't priced it out properly, but is it worth while to build your own? Just looking at princess auto at some of their heads. 2 stage 17.7cfm@100 psi 850 rpm for $950 5 hp running. 60 ish for a switch, 600 or so for a motor, Don't have a price at hand for a tank. My thought is to spend money on a good head and motor, labour is free when you'ar a farmer. The reason I say to spend money on a good motor and head is how much are you really going to use a 1" impact? Say you get a good motor/head combo with a lower cfm and a 80 gallon tank. If you have a good top end you don't have to worry about the duty cycle as much as with a cheaper head unit. This leads me to my other point. How much are you really going to use a 1" impact? I don't use my 3/4" unless I have to and if I have to wait for the compressor to catch up I am completely fine with that.
I am curious to what style of coupler guys are using though. I have to upgrade. I am in the same boat as the OP, very little floor space and am one power pole away from 220V to the shop. I do plan to build a small building on the side of my shop just to house the compressor. I have no desire to hear the damn thing and have seen others do it with no problems.
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Post by meskie on Dec 4, 2020 22:15:39 GMT -6
We thought about inclosing our compressor when we built the shop but didn’t and honestly we don’t notice it when it’s running. We put it on our mezzanine in the corner. With all the other noise while in a shop The compressor doesn’t add much.
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Post by northernfarmer on Dec 4, 2020 23:09:42 GMT -6
I looked at the DV that shmiffy linked to and noted that its their light industrial model which means a 60% duty cycle and splash lubrication ( lots of smaller compressors are splash ) and a two year warranty. Then stepping up to the heavy duty industrial reciprocal units they have pressure fed lube systems and a better pressure performance for the HP motor and a 7 year warranty. I believe the lower end DV is maxed out at 150 psi where as the heavy industrial is up to 175 psi. Oh I am sure one pays dearly for the heavy industrial units but without pricing a person is only guessing. So where does the economics of the screw style make more sense, I guess that all depends on how much air and consistent flow of air you plan on using but as was just pointed out the horrific noise of piston style compressors and so much of that noise comes from the air intake and pretty much have to be wearing hearing protection and I do anyway as I am running something off the compressor that is making very loud noises, impact, die grinder, air hammer, large blow gun etc but still that noise of the compressor is a high irritant indeed.
Beerwiser, there was one item you never listed and at least from what I have seen it seems to be a theme that if a compressor setup claims not to require a magnetic starter and its piddly little pressure switch contacts can start up the unit, I cross it off my list as a decent compressor as most compressors that are heavier duty ( and definitely commercial heavy duty ) require a magnetic starter with a 5 hp motor and they all do once going up to a 7.5 hp and beyond. Have not priced out one lately but they do cost a bit. But lets say the compressor is mounted up high, I believe it should be fine to mount the magnetic starter on the wall with a wired in switch to turn off the compressor as its a must to turn it off due to leaking lines and if anything were to let go and the compressor would stay running ( I've had that happen more then once over the years ) .
Good question about air couplers, I've done testing with various sizes of coupler to get an idea of air restriction by free running my 3/4 impact and a gauge right at the tool and came to the conclusion that 1/2 hose diameter with length within reason and using a 1/2 G style coupler back at the compressor ( bypassing my regulator ), then another 1/2 hose with G coupler on it and the opposite end of that second hose having a 3/8 body size ( H style ) coupler for plugging in the impact was not bad for pressure loss at the tool. But what I typically use for the 1/2 impact for example and most everything else is that first length again of the 1/2 hose with 1/2 coupler at the compressor and it has a 3/8 coupler on the opposite end. Then I plug in a whip hose ( well its actually 20 feet ) of 3/8 hose and it has the male 3/8 body size coupler on the one end and then down to the good ole 1/4 milton M on the very end. More then one 1/4 body size coupler between the air compressor and the tool becomes a huge performance restriction even with the 1/2 impact and forget using a 1/4 coupler on the 3/4 drive impact as I may as well leave it in the tool box. Huge difference between 1/4 and 3/8 body size couplers in performance even if only using 3/8 air line. Unfortunately the 3/8 coupler with high pressures in the line is somewhat difficult to couple but its certainly doable. Now 1/2 couplers are a whole other thing as they are totally impossible to do anything with until the line is bled down. There are such things as connect under pressure type air couplers but the cost becomes so prohibitive so I've ever bought any. There are European type couplers and they are way larger inside diameter for their outside body size but have never used any and expect they would probably have that same issue as the G style with being impossible to work with while there is air in the line, just assuming that though.
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Post by northernfarmer on Dec 4, 2020 23:31:38 GMT -6
This is a bit of a drawn up chart for a few of the common air couplers in North America. I chose the H body for the 3/8 size but I see some shops go with the P style, it may be more popular but I think they flow very similar to the H style. I had thought years ago of switching all the 1/4 over to the aero style that couples automatically without having to pull back the sleeve and also the H style can be had with a female body auto coupler as well but the price goes up and they were more bulky diameter wise so didn't think it worth the cost. Look at what your neighbours use Beerwiser, then when you borrow their tools you don't have to change out the coupler ! LOL. I pound out couplers with vibration and the internal rubber starts to leak and so every so often tossing a few for a few new ones although maybe if its only the seal they can be had but I don't seem to see anyone carrying parts for couplers.
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Post by Albertabuck on Dec 5, 2020 8:08:47 GMT -6
In most large shops and in a HD mechanics tools you will find type A and P, they are what you would call standard. G is used for the larger stuff.
Its frustrating with there being so many different ones. Funny how most things you buy always come with something different lol.
I got one hell of a deal for someone, I have jars full of brand new and used male and female of various kinds, as all I use are the three I mentioned. So do everyone else I know or have ever worked with.
And with the female units, Milton is worth the money.
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Post by Albertabuck on Dec 5, 2020 8:26:57 GMT -6
Something I was just thinking about, is I see it being mentioned, but other than trying to increase your storage, what is the real gain to running to peak pressures pushing like 175psi? I remember someone talking about a regulator in their system. Most tools are designed for 90psi, but can handle up to 130 easily, so what is the advantage to running such high tank pressure? That takes a lot of effort for your head to build that. Its the same thing as with pressure washers, volume does more work over pressure, as in you will clean more with 4 GPM at 2Kpsi than you will with 2GPM at 3Kpsi
I run mine in the shop to 125psi and it kicks back in at 105, then no issue with filling truck tires, and definitely, running it that way has contributed to the long life I have gotten from that compressor.
And if you can stick the compressor somewhere where you don't need to hear it is all good, something I am about to do myself if I ever get my addition finished lol, but you need to keep it where it is warm to keep condensation to a minimum.
Which brings us to another item, who all runs a water seperator? Its amazing how much water can collect over a short time running them lots.
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Post by northernfarmer on Dec 5, 2020 11:19:15 GMT -6
The reason I personally push my pressures is due to lack of volume with that 60 gal tank plus the compressor isn't large enough for some of the demanding flows I need to get out of it, its not right of course as to be proper I would need a unit at least twice to three times that capacity with a 120 gallon tank for example. That is why those diesel driven high volume compressors come into play but good ones come at a price and so unfortunately I don't own one. However as a somewhat odd use for a 500 gal propane tank I bought one years ago that was on wheels and of course relies on the shop compressor to fill it which is really pushing the compressor as it has to run steady for far longer then its duty cycle time but that allows me to run the 3/4 impact ( or if I had a good 1" ) or blow through rads with high volume that I wouldn't otherwise be able to do. The compressor could eventually blow up from being pushed like it is but also I've done this for many years now and haven't done it in "yet" !. And again that is where one of those screw compressors would be ideal for high demand constant flow because they are designed for it. Oh and also when I lay out a lot of air line to reach across the yard that helps with line and connection loss, of course using larger line would alleviate that too.
I do have an air filter/water separator right out of the compressor and then the regulator after that but as I mentioned before I have a bypass connection so normally don't go through the regulator unless I want to drop the flow right down for a special requirement like setting up exact pressures for a small impact to work on a swather/combine knife to change out all the sections or low pressure for a die grinder with an abrasive pad. But those more basic water/filter units don't begin to separate out all the water, they do some but its not nearly good enough for proper use on a sand blaster or painting. That is where the fancy plug in refrigeration units and very expensive filters come in for those doing all that type of work with compressed air. Never the less I had issues with my regulator very soon on because I had installed a steel nipple between the filter and the regulator and that is all it took for some flakes of rust to get into the orings and cause the regulator to leak out if its bleed down hole so put a brass fitting in that spot to prevent that issue. If one had a second bare compressor tank to sit beside the compressor, that in itself can help draw out the water as its the cooling action of flowing into other tanks and have also seen copper pipe being run up ... and back down which helps cool and condensate the water and have a trap built on the bottom that is easy to drain out of that system. Having a decent drain pipe with a ball valve on the bottom of the compressor is a must to make it as easy as possible to drain the water out.
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Post by northernfarmer on Dec 5, 2020 12:58:34 GMT -6
To add to my comment about the water/filter assembly, probably more ideal would be not to have the filter close to the tank like I have but an unrestricted flow size copper pipe some distance from the compressor to where the filter is ( be that horizontal or up the wall and back down ) in order to help cool the air and condense the water before it enters the filter as that is one of the problems of my having the filter right there at the tank is that its hot compressed air passing through and that type of filter isn't able to withdraw moisture out of hot air, just not the right type of filter capable of that. I didn't realize that when I bought it as I had false expectations but at least its a unit that is capable of flowing through a lot of volume with very little restriction.
One thing that having a reasonably decent compressor allows for is being able to fill up a carry tank for example and quickly as in seconds. Rather then mess around with an air chuck and air fitting on a carry tank and filling it like a tire, I have a 1/4 size female coupler on the end of the short hose for the carry tank for my attachments but when I fill the tank I take a rigged up ball valve that has male 1/4 coupler ends and turn the valve off and then plug into the shop supply line and the carry tank, turn the ball valve and wham, the tank is filled in not much more then a blink of an eye or if the shop compressor pressure is down I connect it up and walk away doing other things to let the compressor and my carry tank charge up. I use the carry tank around the yard for things far more then I once did because of how painless it is to fill this way. Simple little invention but I'd never seen anyone have such a thing in friends shops and see them still filling their tank the painful way.
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Post by shmiffy on Dec 5, 2020 14:59:53 GMT -6
Having the tank pressure at 150 and higher isn’t going to be 90 psi at the tool when it’s running. I haven’t tried it just what the Mac tool guy told me.
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Post by meskie on Dec 5, 2020 16:13:48 GMT -6
We don’t have a water separator on ours but have a valve on each drop About 6” below the air couplers that we open up to blow out the water.
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Post by northernfarmer on Dec 5, 2020 17:08:24 GMT -6
Having the tank pressure at 150 and higher isn’t going to be 90 psi at the tool when it’s running. I haven’t tried it just what the Mac tool guy told me. That's a fairly broad based bold baseless statement coming from the Mac guy if he meant the pressure at the tool would "always" be below 90 pounds with much higher pressure at the compressor. It all depends on what hose size/length and coupler size along with other restrictions or lack of restrictions between the tank and tool exist. I've forgotten now some of the exact numbers I came up with testing a 1/2 and 3/4 impact but I could take one hose with a larger coupler size and have very little restriction as in around 5 lb of drop for example ( I don't remember the exact pressure to the pound ), then threw on 1/4 size milton M ends and use two of them with two hoses and dropped the pressure at the tool by 70 pounds from static to running pressure and that was with a 1/2 impact so even at high tank pressure I was just nicely over the 90 pounds of air at the tool but as the tank pressure dropped I would fall below the 90 psi that the tool would see. So that told me the reality of why I was experiencing such a drastic difference in performance when stringing 3/8 line across the yard to reach an implement laid out and couldn't deal with the larger bolt that was no problem with just one hose and why I upsized my coupler sizes for the tools I have. How I did the testing was rigging up a little manifold fitting test gauge where the normal coupler on the tool was instead fitted before my gauge and a less restrictive fitting screwed into the tool so I saw all points of pressure restriction, hopefully that makes sense how I explained it. If anyone reading this is wondering why a higher demand tool they own doesn't seem to perform, that would be the test to do and see if the tool is receiving the air pressure it was intended to or if its simply lacking for air. Here's an example of restriction and not realizing it, some years ago a neighbour called me to see if I happened to own a 1" impact as he was having an awful time and had been at this for a couple of hours getting no where removing bolts on his new versatile tractor he just got delivered as the trucker/dealership hauled the duels separately, he also never had the proper sized socket and that wasn't helping either. So I brought over the correct socket I happened to own so at least he wouldn't ruin the bolt heads but still no go with most of the bolts and he was thinking there was either something wrong with his almost brand new tool which was a good 3/4 CP or those bolts must have been way over torqued. I looked at what he had for a coupler at the tool, his hose size and then took a walk over to his compressor which was quite new as its a 5 hp two stage with an 80 gal tank and there I had the answer as to how the hose had been connected at the tank end. The compressor came with this itty bitty pile of junk chinese air pressure regulator and no way was it capable of passing higher volumes of air as it was only good for small volumes and backing off the pressure. He undid the regulator and screwed the 1/2 hose directly into the tank and then his impact wasn't even breaking a sweat to remove those bolts, absolute night and day difference simply from removing a major restriction.
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Post by northernfarmer on Dec 5, 2020 17:18:24 GMT -6
Meskie, I wouldn't be surprised if your drop system is doing more good then my filter being right at the tank, what I have is just not doing what should be done in getting rid of moisture. Of course with any drain points one has to drain them or have an auto system. Reminds me of many years back at a small local one man shop operation where he had a 5 hp compressor on a nice large 120 gallon tank and I was there for something and he made some comment about water coming out of his air line and I asked the simple question, when did you last drain the tank. Hmmm, well that had slipped his mind ( probably for years ) and he cracks the valve open and water mixed with some compressor oil ran and ran across his shop to the drain as in gallons of water and he is laughing ... yeah, maybe drain a tank more often then that guy did  |
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Post by meskie on Dec 5, 2020 17:35:05 GMT -6
I turn the valve at the drop every time I go grab the hose for something. We have one that doesn’t get used as much and it’s amazing how much water gets in there after a couple weeks of not emptying it.
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