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Post by torriem on Dec 8, 2020 9:36:20 GMT -6
Companies sure like to go cheaper in the last number of years, trying to maximize profits and hope to pull the wool over consumers eyes by throwing their once good trusted brand name around. I bet you are right about the peak hp rating ... 5 miniature horses with fast moving little legs vs 5 clydesdales lumbering along. My brother was just remarking the other day about how the problem with goods these days isn't the fact that they are made in China. China's not driving the problem of cheap rubbish. American (and Canadian) companies and consumers are. In that sense we are the ones demanding ever cheaper goods and the Chinese are learning from the best how to do it. Chinese factories will make whatever we want them to at whatever quality level we want. If the west demanded top-quality goods at a fair price, they would certainly oblige. Sadly "we" don't demand very much other than cheapest price. Just the other day I was mounting a new 200 amp Eaton breaker panel. The cover plate was so flimsy I worry the force of flipping the big double breakers would bend it if they ever moved slightly. That was made in the US too. |
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Post by kenmb on Dec 8, 2020 11:00:42 GMT -6
Keep in mind it is also Canadian and American companies who are getting the stuff made in China. China did not take common house hold names and start putting that sticker on something and ship it back to us. The companies are doing it intentionally. To the point where you can't find good equipment. People talk of deep freezers and water heaters as good examples. Still have a 55 year old Westinghouse deep freeze chugging away in the parents house. I am not even sure if you can buy a top quality freezer or fridge these days unless you go commercial. And those will cost you and not look too good in a kitchen.
As a side note on electrical panels. I mentioned i like using Siemens for those reasons. I asked a few electricians what they like. When working industrial sites there are a lot of electricians who do side work so good guys to ask. Eaton panels were mentioned by a couple guys to avoid for that exact reason - built light, flimsy,and many of the sheared pieces have sharp edges to cut your hand or damage wires. I don't like FPE stab lock breakers, the Square D Homeline panels seem fine though. Siemens is easy enough to find so I go that route.
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Post by Beerwiser on Dec 8, 2020 12:00:50 GMT -6
You can get old tanks recertified as long as there is a thread for the cap. Just have to buy a 20 dollar ring. Just had that tank done this summer, original test date is1963. And yes, the thread on them is 3/4" pipe. I was using a 20lb one for an expansion tank on my coal boiler. Attachments:
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Post by northernfarmer on Dec 8, 2020 13:28:50 GMT -6
Like the idea of a 100lb propane tank to provide some extra volume near the impact. Got a couple without the collar so can't be certified. You guys are talking about pop off valves. Are you saying you leave the original shut off valve in place with the pop off then rig up fittings from there. Seems it would be easier to pull that off as I would expect it's a pipe thread into the tank, but maybe not. Haven't taken one apart yet but perhaps today I will look for myself. Ken, the only propane tank I've converted to air was a large storage tank ( if one can call 500 gallons large ) and they come with those very large pop off valves screwed into their own bung that has nothing to do with the main valve so didn't see the need to touch them. The threads into that tank were all normal right hand pipe thread so I put whatever fittings, gauge and ball valve setup I wanted and then took the tap off the bottom as it had been used to run a grain dryer from the original owner and again put my own tap on for draining water. I am assuming smaller propane bottles have normal pipe thread but some else can verify that. I let the tank air out for some time and then when I did attach a hose I ran in only some air and let it out etc. I don't know if left over propane along with oxygen and high pressures could ignite, that would leave a nice hole in the ground !.
I see your question was answered as I started this note and had to go out the door for a few hours.
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Post by kenmb on Dec 8, 2020 16:45:48 GMT -6
Ok, I see what you mean by pop off now. I was looking at mine today and that would be a pretty strange way to use the 100lb tank if a guy kept the gate valve and vent assembly in place. Will get valve off tomorrow and start rigging things up. My 3/4" blue point impact is rather weak. Took it apart and all looks well. Was really contemplating whether to get a cordless 3/4" or a new air one. But perhaps this 100lb tank t-eed into supply and a 1/2" hose running 20ft to the impact might do the trick. Curious to find out. If it doesn't, I will be back to flipping a coin between new air and cordless.
I didn't know those old tanks could be recertified. Took mine to a shop in Regina specifically to get recertification done and they said it can't be done. So bought a new one.
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Post by northernfarmer on Dec 8, 2020 18:17:30 GMT -6
Ken, some comments back a few posts ago I talked about testing air tools to see what air pressure was reaching the actual tool after the last coupler and that might not be a bad idea to test your impact that way with the air system you are currently using and then rig up the propane tank and do a comparison. Now I ran my impact with no load ( so the air gauge would be steady ) so more air in theory would fly through it but at least it gave me some baselines to work from and see what hose and what coupler sizes did to the pressure. I was only looking at the gauge at the tool and had the pressure built up to what I wanted and then tested by holding the trigger and allowing the gauge to drop to ... oh like 120 psi lets say and right at that pressure let go of the trigger and so the gauge would pop back up to what the actual system pressure back at the tank was in that moment and so for this example lets say it pops up to 140 psi, meaning 20 pounds lost at those two pressure differentials, loaded vs static.
I would imagine you would use as large a fitting as possible into the tank and ball valve etc however you all do and any couplers used as well trying to get the least air restriction possible.
So did the bluepoint 3/4 seem to perform ok in the past with the very same air system, if it did then it would tend to point to the tool but I suppose anything is possible with something going haywire with the internals of a hose starting to fall apart or some such restriction that found its way inside a hose or if its possible for a coupler to do something weird.
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tsipp
Junior Member
Spring valley, Saskatchewan
Posts: 98
Likes: 64
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Post by tsipp on Dec 9, 2020 7:39:33 GMT -6
I’m sure there’s something wrong with me, I have a serious fetish, air compressors and generators, I own more than 10 of each, as for generators I’ve got an 8 cylinder, 6 cylinder 4 cylinder, 2 cylinder and a single cylinder diesel and numerous gas ones, as for air compressors I’ve got a few 3 cylinders, a few quite a few 2 cylinders, the ones with unloader valves that continue to run all day but only make pressure when needed are pretty handy. Also a few antique single cylinder ones.
I do use 100 pound propane tanks but I’m a little Leary about the one 3 cylinder pump cause it will fill that tank in a few minutes to 300 psi. I found out by accident, it didn’t blow but I’ll be a little more careful.... also a few rotary screw compressors, one has a 75 horse electric, my extension cord isn’t big enough for that one.
I was in rehab but I left earlier than was recommended AA is a valuable program, auction anonymous can expect me back shortly.
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Post by northernfarmer on Dec 9, 2020 10:15:30 GMT -6
I’m sure there’s something wrong with me, I have a serious fetish, air compressors and generators, I own more than 10 of each, as for generators I’ve got an 8 cylinder, 6 cylinder 4 cylinder, 2 cylinder and a single cylinder diesel and numerous gas ones, as for air compressors I’ve got a few 3 cylinders, a few quite a few 2 cylinders, the ones with unloader valves that continue to run all day but only make pressure when needed are pretty handy. Also a few antique single cylinder ones. I do use 100 pound propane tanks but I’m a little Leary about the one 3 cylinder pump cause it will fill that tank in a few minutes to 300 psi. I found out by accident, it didn’t blow but I’ll be a little more careful.... also a few rotary screw compressors, one has a 75 horse electric, my extension cord isn’t big enough for that one. I was in rehab but I theft earlier than was recommended AA is a valuable program, auction anonymous can expect me back shortly. So what your trying to say is that your full of high pressure electrically charged hot air 
It sounds like you have a rental fleet, some of those generators and the larger air compressors could be rented out to companies that need the use of power or air for a short duration job and not worth it to invest in the equipment. I do understand though that the screw compressors can be very expensive to service as the oil is very expensive, the filters, the filters for the air dryer setup if it has that as well. My nephew threw out the number of 1000.00 to do a service on a unit and I assumed he meant his small one and if that is correct that sure isn't appealing for an occasional user but like I said I have never personally inquired about the service aspect costs on the size one would be using on a farm in a shop vs a piston compressor.
I suppose you could put a normal pop off relief valve on your propane tank like compressor tanks use and also if you fill with a regulator in line to limit the max pressure as well. So 300 psi, does a 1/4 impact take off highway tractor lug nuts ? LOL.
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Post by kenmb on Dec 9, 2020 10:52:05 GMT -6
NF, the Bluepoint just seems rather weak but it could be the supply. I have a Mac 1/2" air with composite body I bought 25 years ago that runs pretty close to the BP 3/4". And so nice to handle. The Milwaukee 1/2" I have (the lower output one, not the one that can be bought as 1/2 or 3/4") is probably about the same as the Mac 1/2" air to draw comparisons.
I plumbed the shop with 3/4 steel line but probably have a 3/8" line jumping the 5 feet from 5 hp compressor to the rigid line. I need to check that out and perhaps redo. Maybe 80ft of rigid line to a drop then 20 ft of 3/8" hose to the 3/4" impact. Should not be crazy restrictive but each time I have a need for more than either 1/2" impact, the 3/4" just doesn't do much more. So will look at trying the 100lb tank a 1/2" line. I have the 1/2" hose on the wall but never tried it yet as it is 50 ft lengths. Maybe time to cut one in half.
But all this talk of big compressors, bigger hose, high pressures, charging tanks and such, for my needs it is really going to be hard to over look a 3/4" Milwaukee. I bought the smaller 1/2" Milwaukee mainly because it was lighter. For 95% of what I do with it, the light weight is very nice. For the other 5% I could use a heavy unit and take it anywhere I need it, not just the shop with the compressor.
A few years ago I put the compressor up on some pallet racking in the old shop. Nice to finally get it off the shop floor after 35 years. It's a Sanborn unit.
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Post by Albertabuck on Dec 9, 2020 13:36:09 GMT -6
Holy crap Ken, how do you end up with over 100 feet of line between the work and the compressor? Thats like the farms who have the transformer at the gate and then the main load a quarter mile away, you want your supply of anything central. Even running large hose ect will def lose efficiency with that long of run unless it is extremely large. 3/8 will not supply a large gun unless its just a short run. As NF said earlier I believe, connect a gauge ahead of your gun and fire it up freespooling and see what you have for pressure, I'll bet its way down.
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Post by Albertabuck on Dec 9, 2020 13:42:42 GMT -6
If you connect another tank in series with an existing compressor you in no way need a pop valve, it will never see any higher pressure than the compressor which already has a pop valve for safety already. Think you guys are trying to complicate things more than necessary lol
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Post by northernfarmer on Dec 9, 2020 14:52:18 GMT -6
Ken, before you do any changes to the hose from the compressor or the hose at the drop to your tool, do that test I mentioned and you may have fittings around but if not get a few bits and pieces and probably the easiest to source a three way female pipe T fitting ( probably 3/8 but 1/2 would work for sure with no restrictions ) and bushings to adapt to what your testing, then a short length of 3/8 male/male pipe that will screw directly into your 3/4 bluepoint tool, also another fitting to test the 1/2 impact with a 1/4 pipe male fitting ( I assume the bluepoint is a 3/8 pipe ) , then fittings to come sideways off the T for a liquid filled gauge, and finally whatever pipe bushings to fit your male coupler into the backside of that mini manifold setup. Its a bit of pissing around but it will tell you so much about your air plumbed system in your shop, if the couplers are the main problem or you have multiple restrictions along the way as well as the 3/4 impacts issue as to why it doesn't have the power and by testing both impacts you will see the difference in air pressure drop and it may be small or it may be large and why the performance is so close. By the way what is the exact model of your 1/2 milwaukee ( mine is the model 2767 for reference with all that lovely 1400 of bs nut busting torque )
AB, don't go spoiling my fun as I want to have someone report back that they installed a pop off valve and they happened to be standing close when it popped and they shit their pants thinking in that brief moment they just blew themselves up filling the tank LOL. But that 300 psi stuff, that could sure do things as it seems the hose barbs don't hold all that well in some hoses and I've had a 3/8 hose come flying off of its barb and that stops the old heart and then shits flying as the hose is alive and whipping around. If its only a lower pressure shop compressor then its pointless to put a pop off on but if someone hooks it up to some insane high pressure system then it might not be a bad idea.
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f_armer
New Member
Posts: 17
Likes: 15
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Post by f_armer on Dec 9, 2020 15:14:34 GMT -6
A mistake sometimes made in shops, regarding pressure drop, is that they don't make a full loop around the shop.
I had a friend with a 50x100 shop with airline all the way around, he complained about low output at the farthest couplers. I suggested continuing the extra 20 ft or so to complete the loop. The difference was amazing.
Thats how I have mine plumbed also, and I'd hazard a guess that psi and volume are the same at my farthest coupler, than right close to my compressor.
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tsipp
Junior Member
Spring valley, Saskatchewan
Posts: 98
Likes: 64
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Post by tsipp on Dec 9, 2020 18:31:55 GMT -6
You are assuming I’m fussy enough to have a pop off relief valve.
actually I bought 4 air compressor pumps at an auction, all were new in a crate, 10 bucks a piece, so I gave the three smaller ones away and lag bolted a motor and pump to a piece of doubled up 2x10 to the largest pump and gave her a spin. I just didn’t realize how quick it would pump up.
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Post by northernfarmer on Dec 9, 2020 18:40:23 GMT -6
I've not been snooping around newer commercial shops but older commercial type shops, especially automotive ones, I've not seen a loop and part of the problem is a row of doors all along the one side and branches coming off of the main piping into each bay and they go with a single feed line off the one wall. Then you watch their tools sometimes if its anything tougher and they are struggling because the tool is low on air, never mind all the water flying out of tools as I've seen that too. Gees I wonder who pays for the worn out tools with all that lovely water and bits of rust from old black pipe.
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