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Post by SWMan on Dec 5, 2020 22:59:48 GMT -6
You guys will probably think I'm cheap but I ran that cheap compressor on the right of picture for 15 years and it was still going fine. Wanted a little more reserve so bought another $550 60 gallon compressor at Peavey mart and plumbed it so the newer one pumps through the older one and then out. That way if the newer one fails I can just unplug it and plug the old one back in. Works fine for me, 125PSI is enough for whatever I need. Just ran 100PSI PEX all over the shop to hose reels, that's rated at 180F and it would never get that warm anyways. If you are gonna run a 1" impact you need large hose to supply it, or else it won't work proper. Since I got Milwaukee impacts I never touch my air impacts, we do semi and sprayer tires with the hi-torque 1/2" gun easy. Mostly use air for pumping tires but also blowing stuff off, I'm sure that compressor has run for hours at a time more times than I can count!  |
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Post by northernfarmer on Dec 6, 2020 5:49:25 GMT -6
That old compressor probably has better quality than one gives it credit for vs some of the garbage on the market today. It struck me that you have a fair bit of capability there if both were plugged in if you ran wiring for a second one assuming you have the power available in the shop. What would happen is that when the pressure dropped and one had a slightly higher cut in pressure it would come on and if there was sufficient draw that the pressure continued down just a few pounds the second one would kick on. Then at the upper end one would kick off and the other would finish pressuring up the system to kick it off as well. If you have a switch below there that controls the electric outlet to make sure the compressor does not kick on when you are not there due to an air leak, have the second circuit switch there as well and that way you would have easy access to choosing which one you would like to fire up or to have them both come on depending on what you were planning on air consumption wise as lets say you were blowing out rads with a larger capacity blowgun then you would have more air volume time to do such a job or were running a die grinder. I am guessing you haven't done much with a die grinder as some of them take a lot of air even though they don't look like much of a tool size wise. Anyway that is a thought and would give opportunity to exercise that second compressor rather then it sit there and eventually seize up the pistons due to rust if moisture is getting into the compressor head from the other compressor drawing in moist air all the time.
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Post by Albertabuck on Dec 6, 2020 11:52:37 GMT -6
What the point of mentioning the higher pressure is, as pressure increases, the CFM output of a compressor is reduced substantially. So this also plays into longevity, as to build to 175psi over 125psi your compressor is working overtime and running for much longer than really needed, especially if it is only for increased storage. IMO even just using an old 100 pounder propane tank as an auxiliary air tank is a much better choice. There is no right or wrong, to each his own, do what turns your crank. Thats why like myself I have the different options I do. I have changed a lot of truck and trailer wheels with mine running at 125psi with a 3/4 gun and occasionally needing the 1" to break them loose, but sure you need some patience and need to treat the air supply much the same as duty cycle on a buzzbox welder. But then when I got some serious stuff to do, well not only break out the big gun, but the big air supply as well. Think the most impressed I was was working on the gang shafts on my Willbeck disc think them are 1 1/2 shafts, uses an almost three inch socket, hadn't been apart in over 30 years, couldn't touch them with the shop supply, so brought that big LeRoi into play, shows what the diff with a large supply of high pressure really makes, knocked those gangs apart within seconds, never had that big Ingersoll 1" gun rattle like that before lol . And again that one is set to unload at 130psi and kicks back in at just over 100, no need for anything higher. Not just the high volume of compressor output, but I run 3/4 ID hose on that too. The two together put it right over the top.
But in reality how many times do any of us need that kind of set up and how much you want to invest into one is what I think needs to be questioned. I guess this is where I look at it, rather than have some high end compressor tied down in the shop, run a normal system, spend the bucks on something portable, like I said about that big Quincy at Peavey Mart, for 4K you can buy a trailer mounted diesel screw.
I think what you need depends on your operation and how much one does. I get into a lot of industrial and construction equipment than many don't. I also do my own tires, takes a crap load of air to run them diaphragm pumps. And with both of those, portability is huge, so this is where one just needs to do what works best for them.
On another note, something popped into my mind while writing this, a feature you want on any larger compressor is an unloader, works exactly like the air governor on a truck. Now there are two kinds, one that controls the pressure output on a continous running machine like those gas powered wheel barrow type or a large industrial like my LeRoi. The other is for smaller heads, and released the pressure within the cylinders when the compressor cuts out and shuts down at set pressure, this makes it so much easier to start as there is zero pressure within the cylinders of the head. Not all compressors are set up this way, some of the cheaper ones and even older units rely on internal leakage and the check valves to help facilitate restart, and often with these it takes a lot more amps to fire them back up over the ones which unload the cylinder pressure entirely.
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Post by northernfarmer on Dec 6, 2020 14:47:50 GMT -6
You noticed I like my high pressures LOL.
Speaking of pressure, that is where one has to be careful with what one chooses component wise with filter housings, regulators, fixed air lines if that is done in the shop and does have a higher pressure type compressor. Also a lot of carry tanks are not rated all that high so have to be careful about that as well although I suppose most store bought carry tanks have a pop off valve to protect the tank but lets say a smaller propane tank is used I don't think they are rated all that high where as my bulk tank for example is a 250 psi working rated tank so no worries there and has a blow off valve. My carry tank is special as well and wish I could get my hands on another one as it may date back to world war 2 surplus or soon there after and is rated at 300 lb working pressure.
That's a great point about unloaders as I am used to my shop compressor having one so what happens is that when the compressor hits its cut off pressure and shuts down it instantly bleeds down the head pressure ready for a no back pressure restart. The only problem I have had with this compressor is the pressure switch as the original eventually failed ( even though its just triggering a stand alone magnetic start box ) and had to buy another pressure switch to replace it.
AB, do you happen to know what model of 1" Ingersoll that is and if its an extended anvil or the standard short anvil. That topic also goes back to the original poster as a 1" air impact is desired and what brand and model type has been looked at and if its a tire change style I'll call it with the built on 6" extended anvil or a compact unit for more varying uses that the long tire change impact can't fit into the space. There is so much on the market brand wise and again all that mess with china crap and other brands that are well known that also get made in China or over seas as sadly so much seems to be in this era and makes it harder to know what is quality and what to avoid.
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midman
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Post by midman on Dec 6, 2020 17:06:57 GMT -6
My old shop compressor just died on me so bought a new one and will wait till agood pump goes on sale and convert it with a spare gas auger engine I have. New one is a B.E. 5hp 80 gallon was floor model and blew it out almost at cost. The pressure switch has no on/off like my old on,does that indicate it should be wired with a magnetic starter switch or can I just use a 240v switch on wall like before
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Post by northernfarmer on Dec 6, 2020 18:29:27 GMT -6
My old shop compressor just died on me so bought a new one and will wait till agood pump goes on sale and convert it with a spare gas auger engine I have. New one is a B.E. 5hp 80 gallon was floor model and blew it out almost at cost. The pressure switch has no on/off like my old on,does that indicate it should be wired with a magnetic starter switch or can I just use a 240v switch on wall like before I looked up the website and was wondering which of the two 5 hp 80 gallon units is that as I assume the model number should be on a tag. In their photos they don't show a magnetic starter but do on the 7.5 but that isn't to say one should not be in the system. I tried looking through the manual and unless I missed something there wasn't a lot of information to say anything model specific and will post the paragraph I was reading. That is odd how they don't have some information tag on the unit but here is a question, is there factory wiring directly from the pressure switch to the motor because if the answer is yes then more then likely that is the intended way of wiring it which is connecting your shop power to the other connections within that pressure switch. Rather pathetic how they don't even provide an on/off switch on the unit if that is indeed the way its supposed to be wired because you would have to buy a rated switch to install in your shop as using a breaker for example as the on/off switch will soon burn it out as they are not designed to be switched on with a heavy load applied. I am curious what it says on the motors name plate, what its amperage draw is and what the motor RPM is. Even if the compressor is factory designed to make use of that little pressure switch as the main contact point, that doesn't mean you couldn't purchase a magnetic start box and rewire the system as its possible to internally wire a magnetic start box with an external switch ( a very inexpensive switch ) that prevents the magnetic starter from energizing or put another way using a magnetic starter system that is more reliable ( heavy duty ) then expecting that pressure switch to carry the heavy current through its small contacts. I see there is a phone number in that manual, give them a call and just see what they have to say about the wiring of the unit.
ELECTRICALBefore installation, the electrical supply should be checked for adequate wire size and transformer capacity. During installation a suitable fused or circuit breaker disconnect switch should be provided. Where a 3 phase motor is used to drive a compressor, any unreasonable voltage unbal-ance between the legs must be eliminated and any low voltage corrected to prevent excessive current draw. Compressors must be equipped with a properly wired magnetic motor starter or a pressure switch rated to carry the full motor current load. The coil which engages and disengages the contact points in the motor starter is controlled by the pressure switch. Never attempt to bypass the pressure switch or adjust it past the factory set pressure range. Improper installation of the electrical system can cause the motor to overheat or a short circuit to occur.
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Post by northernfarmer on Dec 6, 2020 18:50:03 GMT -6
For some amusement but also thought provoking I will throw in a little "AVE" video on him dreaming up ways of controlling a compressor to get more performance out of it, beware the language if you have kiddies around though !
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Post by Albertabuck on Dec 7, 2020 7:13:21 GMT -6
As far as pressure ratings go, I believe most propane tanks are rated for 300psi, which means they can take a lot more, but even being used as an air tank they would never see anything close to 300. Not sure about the small ones, but any 100 pounder and larger, particularly the older ones, it will be stamped in the top what the test and rated pressures are. The little ones should have it stamped into the guard around the valve same as some of the newer larger ones. May I say at this time, under no circumstances ever use a water system pressure tank, ever. Been people seriously hurt and killed using improper tanks for air. I ended up with an older carry tank this summer from an older neighbor that moved away, bought his like new snowblower and he threw in an old Air O Matic compressor and this carry tank branded with the same name. I love that tank lol. It is so light, I would guess it to be about 3 gallons perhaps, just so nice to grab and go. I had been using a 60 gallon tank on wheels from an old compressor, even had put some garden tractor rear wheels on it to make it easier to pull around by hand or behind the gator, though more often I would just throw it in the back with some effort. It was nice because of its size, but if all you got is a single flat it was overkill. That Air O Matic one has block fitting in it containing a shut off valve, fill port, gauge and a pop off valve built in which unless I can adjust it, that pop valve is going to get removed, simply because it lets go at 105 and don't close again till 80. Real PITA when filling it, as while it is rigged with a valve stem type port for filling as well, like you mentioned earlier I also use two male couplers screwed together to fill such things. I don't have anything inbetween like your shut off valve, so there is some air loss and sometimes that fitting goes flying across the floor while trying to pop it out of one or both of the female ones lol. Thats the same way I fill my bead blaster as well. But back to the carry tank, it sucks having to sit there and watch it fill so I can stop it before it pops off. That Air O Matic compressor is rather impressive as well, older portable type, maybe about a 5 gallon tank, but a huge twin cylinder head and is also equipped with an unloader. Was assembled in Manitoba, don't think it had anything to do with Princess Auto but maybe they did. Tank has a few rusted out pin holes in it which need to be fixed, but overall rather impressed with it. Gonna stick it in the pumphouse for those times when you just need a bit of air for a tire or such, be a lot easier than running hoses together out the shop for those times. As for that 1" impact, that be a 2934 Ingersoll Rand, short anvil, 1500 pounds, but it eats close to 50 CFM. For 3/4 I have two Chicago Pneumatic, 772 short anvil, and a 776 with a 6 inch extended anvil. Specs on the 2934.... www.intlairtool.com/ingersoll-rand-2934b2-impact-wrench-1-square-drive-6600-rpm-1500-ft-lb-max-torque/ |
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Post by shmiffy on Dec 7, 2020 9:06:24 GMT -6
Was standing right beside the air tank on a service rig when the end blew off it. Couldn’t hear anything for the better part of a day. Got sent for a tumble, had to pick a few rocks out of a knee. Was a shop built air tank. Best to not cheap out on an air tank.
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midman
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Post by midman on Dec 7, 2020 9:20:22 GMT -6
Took it out of crate last night to get first look. Has a heavy duty pressure switch wired direct so won't need a magnet starter. Motor is a century, there cheaper but have a few around the farm and seem to be holding there own. Clipped it this morning and it draws 18 amps under load, pumps really good and quieter than my old one. Old Breakers are tougher than you think been using it a switch on my old compressor for almost 20 years but will wire a actual switch for this one as a I am running new conduit to mount this one up on pallet racking. As someone said here an 11cfm will work for most applications,all we had at my uncles auto and truck shop with 4 guys working, lots of impacts and die grinder cleaning heads and blocks for engine rebuilds.
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Post by northernfarmer on Dec 7, 2020 12:16:52 GMT -6
Midman, I guess the photos I was looking at did tell me the story then about the 5 hp being set up with the pressure switch for the starter. As to using a breaker for starting loads, I've sure seen the other happen and in fact at an oilfield cement blending plant I experienced a nice shot of sparks/fire coming out of a breaker as it finally had enough !. So is that a 3450 rpm motor as that amperage is certainly lower then what my particular 1725 rpm compressor motor draws.
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midman
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Post by midman on Dec 7, 2020 12:54:11 GMT -6
Its 3450. Some of these new motors are rated hp at peak not continuous, maybe thats why draws less amps. I put a new 5hp on a bin drag a few years ago, was significantly smaller than previous old balder and seems a little weaker
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Post by northernfarmer on Dec 7, 2020 15:39:33 GMT -6
AB, you could be right about the smaller propane tanks as I have looked on the various ones I have and I don't see a number that jumps out at me for that spec like the large storage tanks have and with them the old ones were 200 psi rated and somewhere in the 1970's maybe or if a bit before they upgraded to a 250 pound working rating. Seems hard to find reliable information online about it as I find charts that talk about pressure according to the temperature of the bottles contents but not the info I was hoping to find. I was having a hard time reading anything on the top of the 100 lb tank I have, I'd have to do some cleaning on it to decipher the writing.
That 1" you have, with that price attached to it I wonder if that is in their ultra heavy duty industrial line which are far more expensive then the units one normally sees listed and no doubt lasts far longer. You can bet that 1500 rating is real and none of this fake "nut busting" bs they like to throw around to get the average consumer buyer to buy into that Milwaukee seems famous for doing on their battery impacts.
Those pop off valves can get weak over time and see if you can take it apart and washer the spring or if there is an adjustment as I've had to do that also with touchy ones that could no longer hold their design pressure as the spring got weak.
The ball valves I use for the air transfer happened to be a bit bigger then the air fitting pipe size so put bushings in both ends and gave me something with a bit more beef to hold onto but not really necessary. Like I said one of those silly little things that just doesn't get thought of to throw together but once you make one up and have it handy along with the other air chucks etc you will like using it and sounds like you do air transfers quite often.
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Post by northernfarmer on Dec 7, 2020 15:43:13 GMT -6
Its 3450. Some of these new motors are rated hp at peak not continuous, maybe thats why draws less amps. I put a new 5hp on a bin drag a few years ago, was significantly smaller than previous old balder and seems a little weaker Companies sure like to go cheaper in the last number of years, trying to maximize profits and hope to pull the wool over consumers eyes by throwing their once good trusted brand name around. I bet you are right about the peak hp rating ... 5 miniature horses with fast moving little legs vs 5 clydesdales lumbering along. |
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Post by kenmb on Dec 8, 2020 7:51:42 GMT -6
Like the idea of a 100lb propane tank to provide some extra volume near the impact. Got a couple without the collar so can't be certified. You guys are talking about pop off valves. Are you saying you leave the original shut off valve in place with the pop off then rig up fittings from there. Seems it would be easier to pull that off as I would expect it's a pipe thread into the tank, but maybe not. Haven't taken one apart yet but perhaps today I will look for myself.
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