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Post by kenmb on Dec 10, 2022 12:30:56 GMT -6
For me, it is more about I don't need another permanent structure on the farm. When I quit the farm will be bought by someone bigger and become parceled out as a acreage for the house and couple sheds now. Pretty slim chance a new owner will make this home base and make use of a permanent shed and continue it as a farm the same as I am now.
I will definitely go whichever makes the most sense but I won't pay a significant premium for a pole shed because it's more permanent. And as many people have learnt over the years, there are also a lot of piss poor pole sheds that have been built so one can't say a pole shed is automatically going to be better than a canvas one.
I don't mind paying 30% for a product that should be more durable, but if it become 50 to 75% more then things change. My shop is an all steel building, cost more than a pole shed but then we get talking about the pole shed problems people have had and why I went all steel. So maybe a guy should compare canvas to all steel if we are to discuss durability and longevity as factors.
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Post by Oatking on Dec 10, 2022 17:59:13 GMT -6
I will check with Winkler canvas. Looking at there web site it shows they offer quite a lot of variety of hoop style buildings. Also, it looks like they can be anchored in different fashions. I like the 4 foot concrete wall around the building but that would be pretty pricey for a 100-200 ft shed. Some building use pilesand some simply use concrete blocks.
What is the most common way and cost effective way to anchor down a hoop building? I am in Ken's boat where I am a last generation farmer not about to blow twice as much money for a permanent 50-60 year old wood building.
Only canvass building around my area I know of is the enns brothers building in Oak bluff. It has stood there for many years now.
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Post by willyboy on Dec 10, 2022 20:34:54 GMT -6
We have a CoverAll building to store equipment in. It is 50'x60'. The structure was purchased secondhand from CoverAll and it came with a new tarp. It would have been put up around 2000 and the tarp is still fine however shortly after it was setup the first tarp was lost in a wind storm, so not sure if it wasn't tightened quite right or what happened there. It is set on power pole cutoffs buried in the ground, some of those have jacked out of the ground a bit in the wet years. This has one end wide open, facing the South in a fairly sheltered yard. It has been a good shelter overall however last winter the snow load on it got to be too much and it bent a couple of the perlins but it never came down. We got some new ones to put in but the outfit that came to fix it was behind and never got here until after the first snowfall this year to fix it and didn't get it repaired! The snow was stuck to the tarp at the highest point and we couldn't get it off to pull the rafters into place. We will have to watch the snow on it this winter and try to push as much of it off as we can a few times to lessen the weight on it. That being said there were a couple of the cheaper tarp buildings in the area that came down in the snow last year. Looking at ours the end trusses use 2 perlins, and there would probably be 6-8 of these sets spanning the end trusses. the trusses in the middle just use one perlin at each location and this is where it buckled. I was thinking it would be easy to use the double perlins at maybe the top of the arch where the snow load would be the greatest. Not sure if that makes sense or not, I would have to try to get some pictures to explain it more clearly. I have some cousins that have two coverall buildings, the one is on a 4' wood pony wall built with railway ties buried and the other is the style with more of the straight wall. They have replaced the tarp on both structures now, would have got around 25 years on each tarp. Their cousin was the owner of CoverAll so that is why they were more popular here.
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Mags
New Member
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Post by Mags on Dec 11, 2022 9:42:17 GMT -6
We have a Norseman fabric heated warehouse at work. I didn’t think very highly of fabric buildings after seeing a few destroyed over the years in southern Alberta. But after being around this one, I’m a believer. This ones 60x120 with an 18x20 roll up door. It’s been up since I think 2010 and seen quite a few wicked wind storms, and major hail events. Still standing like a champ and looks like the day it was put up. It’s got fairly thick insulated fabric though, so a layer on the outside and one on inside so you can’t actually see the trusses. Not sure if that helps it stand up to the elements. Not sure on pricing. See there’s dealer is Saskatoon, don’t see one in Manitoba according to website but if you click on projects they put up building all over the country.
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Post by Oatking on Dec 13, 2022 20:32:03 GMT -6
Well , I received a quote for a 60 by 120 ft governor canvas building from Winkler canvas . It has a 24ft by 18 door on one end and was listed as a open front side. I have the option of a 50 ft bifold door. Without the front door it is 125,000. That is a concrete base wall that is 2.5 by 2.5 by 5 ft long blocks anchored into the ground. 56 blocks needed.
I received a few photos of some near by buildings and they look like a good sound building. Its at least an option I will consider. I like the idea of getting the combines in the shop fairly quickly with the 35ft 635 headers on.
Anybody store some grain in a building like this? I am getting too old to shovel so probably would never consider this, but this year I almost had to pile beans on the ground!
Just wondered about the colour of a building like this. White would get pretty ugly looking with all the dust storms and such. Maybe green or something.
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Post by SWMan on Dec 13, 2022 21:53:17 GMT -6
Oatking is that an erected price? If so what is the cost of labor?
Sounds like that could be dismantled and moved down the road if need be, as long as labor isn't too bad.
On color I would imagine that you would want it to reflect heat as much as possible so that it doesn't get hot and de-tension. Maybe this material isn't prone to expanding and contracting, but from what I gather most problems happen when the tarp isn't tensioned properly. So probably a light color. Winkler Canvas will know what is a popular color and what lasts. I bought a tent from them and the guy was pretty up front about what colors worked best and what might be prone to fading as there were different materials involved with the different colors for that small application anyways.
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Post by Oatking on Dec 14, 2022 7:06:39 GMT -6
Yes, I should ask winkler canvas the breakdown in price. Particularly the cost of the canvas and construction cost. Tarps are not cheap. I remember the elevator manager at paterson in Morris said the tarp that covers the bunker was around 70 grand. That is a big cost for something you may only use once.
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Post by SWMan on Dec 14, 2022 10:18:45 GMT -6
That's a really big tarp though! I bet they had it paid for after one year's harvest basis.
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Post by kenmb on Dec 14, 2022 11:31:30 GMT -6
Yes, I would make my choice on color mainly by asking Winkler if there is a benefit of one over another in regards to uv protection and other factors. You may be better with 50ft wide and longer, generally going from 50 to 60 ft span on any given building is a significant jump in price. All depends how you plan to use it and what door size is deemed necessary. If I remember right, Winkler uses a pretty hefty canvas material, more so than pretty much any other supplier when I was looking a few years ago. It wasn't just one thing Winkler did better, they had a sturdy truss design, much better canvas tightening method (easy to retension as time went by), heavier canvas, and wall profiles seemed better. The concrete block pony wall is also something I would pursue.
If you put grain in the same building you also plan to store equipment in I would want to have lots of cats around. First rule of storing equipment is not to have a food source for rodents near by so if you are putting the food source in there then need a plan to deal with results. Yes, I know the plan is to empty the grain first but getting all the kernels cleaned up isn't possible. Lots of suggested ways to keep mice out of equipment, I find cats are the best solution here. For the price of the really cheap canvas buildings you would likely be better to put up a 30ft wide one for grain only.
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Post by kevlar on Dec 14, 2022 11:48:48 GMT -6
Lots of suggested ways to keep mice out of equipment, I find cats are the best solution here.  image uploadYa sure about that??!! Here’s our “outdoor cats” that my wife said a couple years ago were “never coming in the house “, until the day I came in and she was sitting on the couch with both of them sleeping on her lap. To give them credit, they are good mousers, for the three hours a day they are awake. |
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Post by cptusa on Dec 14, 2022 13:11:36 GMT -6
Yesterday was windy and rainy. Head of security and head exterminator both took the day off.  |
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Post by kenmb on Dec 15, 2022 10:45:59 GMT -6
I do ok with mousetraps and two cats. Though the two cats spend 99% of their time in the heated garage attached to the house. They do venture out when the outside conditions are just right, I just haven't figured out what those conditions are. There were some sparrow feathers in the cat bed last week so some success there. Mice were getting into vehicles quite often till we got some cats around the farm, now they aren't in the vehicles anymore but still catch some in traps in the sheds.
Was clearing snow two winters ago and for a good 1/2 hour I watched a weasel trek across 70 yards of snow to a bin group and back to his den with a mouse each time. Probably got about 8 mice. Weasel was small enough to find a hole in full floor aeration duct system to get where the mice were nested. I suppose the lesson there is I should unbolt the fan and move so the cats can do the same thing when I know there are mice under the floor.
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Post by billybigrigs on Dec 15, 2022 11:02:30 GMT -6
If a guy could keep weasels around, they’ll do more than cats ever will. Weasels kill mice just to kill mice.
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Post by meskie on Dec 15, 2022 11:04:40 GMT -6
We have a cat that likes to kill mice just for the fun of it also. My dog got tired of watching him play with a mouse one day and put the mouse out of its misery.
But I wouldn’t mind having a few more weasels around
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Post by kevlar on Dec 15, 2022 13:31:23 GMT -6
Weasels are good mousers but can also destroy a cab pretty quick if they choose to. They can also kill a pile of chickens. They also really stink if they die in your cistern and you have to pump it all out and disinfect it. And one more thing, they scare the crap out of you when you think it’s a mouse in your house and you just try to grab it.
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