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Post by meskie on Nov 1, 2023 20:59:31 GMT -6
They just used the regular lift from the fill Hole on ours. Our bins bolted to the hopper on the outside. The holes are punched in the ring below the hopper sheets. Builders had scaffold made that clamped to the hopper legs to walk around. Bin crew we generally get have a crane on a tandem truck they use. Seems to work better then the bin crane with a tractor as they can lift and swing the bin into place. The crew with the crane built 2 2406 and put onto the hopper in 3 days. Guys with the truck crane showed up at 7am and had two 2407 bins on the cone and were leaving the yard before noon that day.
Not sure what the bins weigh but our 4000lb forklift struggles lifting the bottom half of the bin pack.
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Post by northernfarmer on Nov 1, 2023 21:25:00 GMT -6
They just used the regular lift from the fill Hole on ours. Our bins bolted to the hopper on the outside. The holes are punched in the ring below the hopper sheets. Builders had scaffold made that clamped to the hopper legs to walk around. Bin crew we generally get have a crane on a tandem truck they use. Seems to work better then the bin crane with a tractor as they can lift and swing the bin into place. The crew with the crane built 2 2406 and put onto the hopper in 3 days. Guys with the truck crane showed up at 7am and had two 2407 bins on the cone and were leaving the yard before noon that day. Not sure what the bins weigh but our 4000lb forklift struggles lifting the bottom half of the bin pack.
Interesting, I wonder if the bin manufacturer rates the bin to be lifted that way as I don't imagine it would take too long to get an answer from the person in the know at the bin company level.
Ok that's interesting as I have not had a look at bins/hoppers that were designed that way, too used to seeing flat bottoms that were never really intended to ever go onto a hopper ... being put on a hopper and yes another reason why I understand some bins on farms have failed is because of the mismatched joining of a hopper to a bin without the design forces being taken into consideration ( again going back to aeration )
Are you saying that the crew that had the truck crane built two bins and bolted them onto their respective hoppers in less than five hours ?
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Post by meskie on Nov 1, 2023 21:31:40 GMT -6
Yes they were looking for things to do so had both crews working as one on a Friday. I think there was 10 or 12 guys working.
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Post by OptimallyDismal on Nov 2, 2023 6:15:45 GMT -6
I was moving a 14' westeel, older bin with a crane, lifting at the fill hole on top, it was a bit caved in at the back but as it was a bit stuck on the cement pad by the time it pulled off everything was straight again. I think the crane was maxxed out as well, those roofs are stronger than they look!
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Post by serffarmer on Nov 2, 2023 7:48:23 GMT -6
Some of these bin crews are pretty impressive. Had a couple 2406 s put up after harvest. Crew from Alberta with a picker truck showed up around 3 pm. I stopped in at just before dark which was around 7:30 at that time expecting them to maybe have one up. They were packing up and cleaning up already. Couldn’t believe it.
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Post by northernfarmer on Nov 2, 2023 11:39:37 GMT -6
I was moving a 14' westeel, older bin with a crane, lifting at the fill hole on top, it was a bit caved in at the back but as it was a bit stuck on the cement pad by the time it pulled off everything was straight again. I think the crane was maxxed out as well, those roofs are stronger than they look!
I am surprised that the roof ring didn't pop off the panels and cause a lot of carnage in the process, it just doesn't look very strong to examine the thin roof panels and the little bolts they use to attach them to the lid ring. I was careful to not lift much before we started prying around the bin to help it side up off of the mounting flange from the hoppers and its also possible to miss a bolt as per human error. I don't even know what happens when the max listed capacity is reached on the westeel crane, if a bypass system exists in the plumbing or the winch motor stalls out as the manual doesn't say a thing about that as it only shows how much weight should be lifted at each height adjustment increment, lowest setting 6000 lb and 8000 at his highest setting. Its not always easy to find out what the weight of a bin being lifted is.
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Post by meskie on Nov 2, 2023 12:30:42 GMT -6
Winch motor stalls out. But if you don’t have a big enough tractor it will lift the back wheels off the ground.
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Post by northernfarmer on Nov 2, 2023 13:11:11 GMT -6
Winch motor stalls out. But if you don’t have a big enough tractor it will lift the back wheels off the ground. I wonder if it depends on what pressure the tractor puts out or going back to winch motor/hydraulics internally that protect the winch and the system its designed around. As to the lifting of wheels off the ground, it states in the westeel manual about having a tractor that weighs ... oh I think it may have said 12000 lb but its what the back of the tractor weighs that matters just as much as you pointed out. One of my neighbours said that his dad had an oops with a crane with an older JD two wheel drive tractor installed, it wasn't the tractor that lifted but it was the actual hitch bar that snapped off if you can imagine. They theorized that all the stresses they put the tractor through in its life and equipment that applied a down force on the hitch must have weakened it and now with an up pull unlike any force it had experienced was the straw that broke the camels back. I don't think the bin fell down that far and no one was under it but that could have ended badly. I can also see the bolted on hammer strap on some tractors having its bolts fail if they are all fatigued. I used a four wheel drive, that allows for turning the steering wheel to move it side to side when over the hopper but can be frustrating to get the initial alignment right as the articulating steering is not helpful when trying to get to that point as steering the correct way wags the tail so to speak in the direction opposite of where one wants the bin to go !
I was flipping through the Westeel crane manual and it stated that the maximum towing speed is 40 km, not sure if thats because they tow so crappy on roads with any bumps or for legal reasons because it has a slow moving sign on it, like any farm equipment with that sign on it. It takes a long time to travel any distance during daylight hours ( certainly in the winter ) with equipment restricted to that speed.
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Post by kevlar on Nov 2, 2023 21:17:30 GMT -6
Got one bin almost half full of canola today, seems to be holding up alright! lol. Didn’t get this bin completely leveled or tamped so that’s all we’re going to put in it, hopefully get the other one filled start of next week with wheat. Only have next week to get everything done, deer season starts on the 13th.
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Post by northernfarmer on Nov 2, 2023 21:44:00 GMT -6
I had that on my mind yesterday when you talked about the bins or one bin anyway that you knew was not quite level and also had not tamped the gravel, not to fill a bin like that to keep its center of gravity low and the over all weight lower as well. Also to try and lower them both down to what you think is a safe level before the ground thaws out in the spring. Perhaps that is being over cautious but it takes some time to settle in and all depending on how much moisture there is in the ground now and snow/ice that builds up under the bin inside the base ring diameter and gets trapped there, what can happen is that on the south facing side or side that is able to get the spring sun, that ground gets soft before the north side that stays frozen longer so the ground doesn't have the same weight carry ability all around the bin.
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Post by kevlar on Nov 2, 2023 21:53:12 GMT -6
Will definitely get them emptied down before spring then only leave maybe the cone full until we get a chance to finish the ground work and get them anchored down.
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Post by meskie on Nov 2, 2023 22:06:15 GMT -6
How do you anchor your bins down? We started getting 10’ screw piles put in on each corner then welding 3/8” chain to the skid and screw pile.
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Post by kevlar on Nov 2, 2023 22:18:23 GMT -6
How do you anchor your bins down? We started getting 10’ screw piles put in on each corner then welding 3/8” chain to the skid and screw pile. Thinking screw piles for these bins, at least 2 per bin, maybe 3. On our 4000 hoppers we hand screwed in some anchors that were about 3 feet long and about a 4 inch diameter screw. Not sure if they would actually hold anything or not but it’s good enough for insurance. We have a 2200 hopper that sits out in the open with no anchors and it’s never moved.
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Post by meskie on Nov 2, 2023 23:24:59 GMT -6
We have 4 per bin but they share them with the bin beside each other.
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Post by OptimallyDismal on Nov 3, 2023 6:21:39 GMT -6
I was moving a 14' westeel, older bin with a crane, lifting at the fill hole on top, it was a bit caved in at the back but as it was a bit stuck on the cement pad by the time it pulled off everything was straight again. I think the crane was maxxed out as well, those roofs are stronger than they look!
I am surprised that the roof ring didn't pop off the panels and cause a lot of carnage in the process, it just doesn't look very strong to examine the thin roof panels and the little bolts they use to attach them to the lid ring. I was careful to not lift much before we started prying around the bin to help it side up off of the mounting flange from the hoppers and its also possible to miss a bolt as per human error. I don't even know what happens when the max listed capacity is reached on the westeel crane, if a bypass system exists in the plumbing or the winch motor stalls out as the manual doesn't say a thing about that as it only shows how much weight should be lifted at each height adjustment increment, lowest setting 6000 lb and 8000 at his highest setting. Its not always easy to find out what the weight of a bin being lifted is.
Me too, there were some bad noises, the cement was about an inch higher inside and that bit of cement held on better than I thought it would. I took every big chisel I had and drove them in under the edge to get it to move, when it finally popped up it was 6" above the pad! The tractor doesn't have very awesome hydraulics, so I guess it was a bit of a safety system!
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