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Post by kenmb on Nov 20, 2022 8:12:18 GMT -6
Never seen one work so curious to how they would do for leveling off mole hills, gopher holes or when the coyotes and badgers go digging in the field.
Putting on granular herbicide with the BG 8800 with 2" spoons and mounted harrows does a good job of leveling off these problems every 5 or so years so wondering of a heavy harrow with valmar on it could do the same job. Ruts get taken care of with the 8800, usually right after seeding or in fall so that would still be the tool used for those specific needs.
Spreading straw isn't a criteria right now as the 2388 chopper/spreaders doesn't leave much of a problem to deal with.
I do notice that Degelman seems to be the only units with valmars on them. Have a next to new valmar sitting with tarp on a 40ft cultivator I could probably put on a harrow unit if I buy a new distribution kit. So can probably fit one up.
Have been looking around for a bigger 8810/8910 and keep doing what I am doing as the 8800 is getting aged but maybe a heavy harrow would do the job of leveling well enough and be better as a granular applicator.
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Post by wheatking76 on Nov 20, 2022 9:48:24 GMT -6
ive only ran the Bourgault heavy harrows and from my experience which isn't a lot the harrows don't really level them off much, might spread it but depend on which angle you hit the hole the hole is still there to hit with the sprayer after you harrow by it, had a couple the dirt was so hard and harrows rode over it doing nothing, i use the cultivator to level them out
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Post by kevlar on Nov 20, 2022 11:26:51 GMT -6
We used to have Bourgault heavy harrows and I would say no it won’t level them out, unless maybe on sandier ground possibly.
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Post by kenmb on Nov 20, 2022 12:55:28 GMT -6
I wouldn't think they would but that is me making an assumption. I suppose a guy could use a heavy harrow instead of cultivator and if things get out of hand after a number of years then do a recreational tillage pass of some form to get things smoothed out again.
There is a BG 8910 with BG 6550 on Ritchie Brothers selling Wednesday and have a bid in now so debating how much I should pursue a cultivator vs heavy harrow. If it sells cheap enough I would bid to take it and keep using a cultivator as usual. My guess is this unit is going to sell pretty high, as all things are right now. BG 5710 tend to go pretty cheap but that doesn't suit my use. Mainly looking for a BG 6450 or 6550 so if a 8910/8810 goes as a package for the right price then that is of interest.
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Post by SWMan on Nov 20, 2022 23:33:26 GMT -6
Heavy harrows are not cultivators but will do some minor levelling and smoothing, like said previously how much depends on how hard the ground is. There is definitely benefits from the additional straw management though, IMO no combine is perfect enough to not benefit from a follow-up harrow pass.
After owning several kinds of heavy harrows(9/16" and 5/8" tines) I am very pleased with my Elmers harrows with 7 rows of 1/2" tines. I think that size of tine is better for straw management and having all the additional rows makes a big difference in smoothing and even moving chaff around.
I had a Valmar on one of them and it rarely got used and was a visibility issue and caused premature failure of center frame tires from the additional weight. For the little I use it I would borrow or rent one of those pull-type valmars from the farm input places instead of having one on the harrow all the time.
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Post by kenmb on Nov 21, 2022 8:25:35 GMT -6
I am leaning towards trying a heavy harrow. Putting Edge down in spring with a harrow probably has advantages over doing it with the cultivator. Even though I put the spoons maybe an 1" into the ground just to throw some dirt around, I think there could be a better result using harrows to stir the top bit of dirt and maybe get a better burnoff in spring by getting more consistent weed germination. And I may also learn that a harrow pass has other benefits.
The note about the valmar causing stress is basically why I was wondering if Degelman units are the preferred option since they seem to be the only ones equipped as such. It would be nice to keep things uncluttered and not have a valmar on a harrow but right now my main purpose of looking at a different tool is to put down granular herbicide so would want a valmar on it. At least until I learn that was a bad idea. Spent a number of years pulling a granular applicator around then working in the granular later and prefer the one pass option.
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Post by victory on Nov 21, 2022 16:23:04 GMT -6
I have a valmar on a mid harrow and use it a fair bit to incorporate granular herbicide. At least it is worked in right away, especially when they recommend 2 passes for good incorporation. You do have to take into consideration the extra weight on the frame. Take it easy if there are rough areas in the field.
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Post by kenmb on Nov 22, 2022 8:33:20 GMT -6
Looks like I will be pursuing a heavy harrow.
Phoned Ritchie Brothers to increase my bid limit for that 8910/6550 and didn't know it took 2 days to confirm a wire transfer. I mean, it's a wire transfer from my bank account to theirs and is actually instantaneous. But for some reason no one in the entire Ritchie Brothers organization has time to confirm or apparently can't even document the funds received so I can bid higher tomorrow. Live and learn.
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Post by kevlar on Nov 22, 2022 8:49:00 GMT -6
What’s going on with Ritchie’s lately? Sounds like a lot of people not too happy with them, guess that’s what happens when you try having a monopoly. I know a guy who was going to have an auction next spring but said after dealing with them and all their fees on top of that, he’s likely just going to sell everything privately. We bought a air seeder through a Fraser auction a couple springs ago and they were great to work with, maybe they have changed now though to?
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Post by kevlar on Nov 22, 2022 9:09:33 GMT -6
One thing to keep in mind with heavy harrows is depending on your soil, they can really pack it hard, that’s why we got rid of ours. Couldn’t use them in the spring at all or a damp fall without packing it. We also found that they didn’t move straw all that well behind our New Holland that really smashed up the straw. But for incorporating granular it would work well but can also make it really powdery.
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Post by meskie on Nov 22, 2022 12:25:18 GMT -6
We found a heavy harrow wouldn’t move much straw behind our claas combines either. We got a used set of Elmer super 7 this summer and they are twice the machine as our bourgault heavy harrows for moving straw around They also leveled out mole hills and small ruts far better.
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Post by Oatking on Nov 23, 2022 16:05:52 GMT -6
I think it is worth the extra money to get a heavy harrow with the carbide or re enforced tine ends. My new elmers super 7 had zero wear with the welded tip ends at the end of a short season. My last super 7 with the regular tines had an angle worn off the tines after only a few thousand acres. The ground was equally hard as last year in my area.
The elmers does do a good straw management job, however you need nice dry conditions to do that effectively. This year time was running short so I had to harrow in less than ideal conditions which I was unhappy with the first pass. I ended up doing a second pass on some acres and that looked a whole lot better. My fall fuel bill is not bad pulling harrows and also I think my land has a lot less compaction and less soil moisture loss.
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Post by kenmb on Nov 24, 2022 8:01:07 GMT -6
Moisture loss and a little too much disturbed dirt is my concern using the 8800 for incorporating in spring. That 1" or so deep trench made by the spoon is about 20% of the ground on 8.8" spacing. Figure a harrow to put edge down in spring may be worth the investment for preserving seed bed. And in fall hooking up the cultivator and getting air tank out of storage just hasn't fit my schedule of other things I want to do. But hooking on a harrow and handling a few bags in the fall would work well I think.
There are a few Degelman units on Ritchie Brothers with valmars I can pursue come spring. The valmar I have here is 20 outlet so the manifold would need changing for a 70ft harrow. May as well look at a harrow already set up.
To your point about compaction Kevlar I do think some places need to consider such things. I am starting to wonder if heavy drills with high packing pressure has some effects on compaction. I won't say yes or no, I am just saying I am paying much more attention to something I always considered to be a problem elsewhere and not here. After all, freeze/thaw is supposed to break compaction, yet I don't beleive that what so ever now. If I could rent a disc ripper or some other tool that can go down 10 to 12" I would certainly like to try it in a number of spots. I suppose I should pick up a compaction tester and investigate more areas of my land.
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Post by hardrockacres on Nov 24, 2022 8:54:36 GMT -6
A 7 bar harrow, either Elmers, Bourgault, or other will do a better job vs a 5 bar in almost all conditions. They also seem to have a bit less compaction we have found. Carbide tines are a must if in your budget. but there likely are not many of these running around with Valmar units if that is you r primary need for the harrow.
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Post by meskie on Nov 24, 2022 9:43:13 GMT -6
I think compaction is a problem for guys trying to dry the ground out and trying to do tillage with a heavy harrow. I found we don’t need much down pressure to do a good job with a harrow bar. The more down pressure the more piles of straw get left for us.
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