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Post by Albertabuck on Jan 22, 2022 15:11:48 GMT -6
What working pressures are the systems that you plan to make hoses for? Because you can make most hoses needed on a farm with reusable screw on fittings. Apart from really high pressure hoses like on an excavator, or the hydrostatic transmission on a header, reusable fittings are fine. No expense outlaid on a crimper, can be made out in the field, and if the hose is ever damaged in the future, you can reuse the same fittings. I make all my own hoses, with reusable fittings. Occasionally I've been caught out and had to get a hose made in a shop where you end up with a crimped hose. But I can't actually recall any hose that has NEEDED to be crimped because of the pressure rating, on the farm. I really have no idea why reusable fittings are not more commonly used these days. Good you bring them up, I don't mention them or suggest them for several reasons. They are not commonly used because they are not really suitable for the newer style of hoses or the higher pressures of more modern systems. Under 2K psi with standard hose, yea they work ok, but once you get into variations of hose layer thickness and construction, skive or non skive ect, things don't work so good anymore. The reusable fittings only will fit the specific size and type of hose they are made for. The crimp on in both styles compression and bit to wire can accommodate a very wide range of hose types. This is why there are charts of various specs for crimping depending on these factors. There is no variations possible with the screw on ends. This often results in either being too loose which can blow off easily, or overly tight with distorts the structure of the hose and or can make it impossible to assemble the same. Yes they are fine in some situations, but in the grand scheme of things in modern day equipment, not so much anymore. I'll raise you one higher, I bet I have more of those old barb and clamp style emergency repair fittings that everyone on this forum put together, so yea I will use whatever works best for the situation, I'm a cheap SOB when I can be lol, but I'm not going to suggest something where any variance from normal is going to result in a problem for someone. And besides, at the prices of hyd oil these days, to cheap out on a hose repair is silly IMO, a lot of standard hoses cost less than a pail of oil. If you want to have some, they can be bought at pretty much any hyd shop, industrial supply ect, trouble is, like I said, they only fit the size and type of hose they designed for. Example, one for single wire 3/8 rubber hyd hose, will not properly fit a 2 wire hose of same type. |
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Post by northernfarmer on Jan 22, 2022 16:43:13 GMT -6
It seems with those reusable ends, the construction of the hose even if its two hoses both with lets say a double braid, one hose works with the reusable fitting while the other is highly suspect in its ability to hold depending on the brand of the hose. Having said that, there seems to be more of a standard or at least a compatible hose with a matching type reusable end and being DOT rated when it comes to the lower pressure hoses used on highway tractors for instance for the tank to engine fuel system. Be it SAE or JIC angled fittings used with that outer cloth woven style hose and if one does use that same hose for an airline although they are not the best line to run from the trucks frame air fitting to brake pots for the eventual failure due to being flexed constantly by the suspension and the corrosion with the crap they spread on our roads, would work perfectly fine in Australia though.
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Post by farmshop on Jan 22, 2022 22:53:35 GMT -6
Reusable ends can work great as long as you have the correct ends for the hose. Another consideration is the number of hoses you intend to do as reusable are more expensive then crimp fittings
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Post by SWMan on Jan 22, 2022 23:26:08 GMT -6
I've used those re-usable style fittings before and probably have some laying in the fitting bin, but yea they are a little tricky with different hose types. I did see some of those fittings in Princess Auto recently. Sometimes PA has pre-made hydraulic hoses on sale and I have a few of those around but those are all basically 1/2" male pipe ends.
Most of the stuff I'm doing would be around 3000psi, would get excavator stuff from a dealer as those fittings are too big and specialized to stock anyway.
I remember getting speaking to a guy at a farm show a couple years back that was selling this stuff, crimper with various kits of fittings. I know I had a flyer from him somewhere in the office, so this turned into more of a clean my office ordeal and I have only got the Wurth contact info so far. Probably do some calling next week.
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CTS2
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Post by CTS2 on Jan 23, 2022 7:40:20 GMT -6
Where do you get these fittings? The same place you would get your crimp fittings. |
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CTS2
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Post by CTS2 on Jan 23, 2022 7:46:15 GMT -6
Good you bring them up, I don't mention them or suggest them for several reasons. They are not commonly used because they are not really suitable for the newer style of hoses or the higher pressures of more modern systems. Under 2K psi with standard hose, yea they work ok, but once you get into variations of hose layer thickness and construction, skive or non skive ect, things don't work so good anymore. The reusable fittings only will fit the specific size and type of hose they are made for. The crimp on in both styles compression and bit to wire can accommodate a very wide range of hose types. This is why there are charts of various specs for crimping depending on these factors. There is no variations possible with the screw on ends. This often results in either being too loose which can blow off easily, or overly tight with distorts the structure of the hose and or can make it impossible to assemble the same. Yes they are fine in some situations, but in the grand scheme of things in modern day equipment, not so much anymore. I'll raise you one higher, I bet I have more of those old barb and clamp style emergency repair fittings that everyone on this forum put together, so yea I will use whatever works best for the situation, I'm a cheap SOB when I can be lol, but I'm not going to suggest something where any variance from normal is going to result in a problem for someone. And besides, at the prices of hyd oil these days, to cheap out on a hose repair is silly IMO, a lot of standard hoses cost less than a pail of oil. If you want to have some, they can be bought at pretty much any hyd shop, industrial supply ect, trouble is, like I said, they only fit the size and type of hose they designed for. Example, one for single wire 3/8 rubber hyd hose, will not properly fit a 2 wire hose of same type. You are correct. Reusable fittings MUST be used on the correct hose. Just like crimped fittings MUST be used on the correct hose. Take a look at the chart and tell me how often you would be above the rated working pressure of these hoses. Then, have a look at the RHS of the chart, and see how the hoses can be fitted with either reusable or crimped fittings, on THE SAME HOSE. It's not different hose. If you require higher pressure, then yes, you get different hose, which cannot be fitted with screw on fittings. The T2000 and T7000 are crimp, the 6000 series are reusable. Or, field attachable as they call them. If a screw on reusable fitting type hose fails, you have done something wrong. |
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CTS2
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Post by CTS2 on Jan 23, 2022 7:49:09 GMT -6
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CTS2
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Likes: 27
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Post by CTS2 on Jan 23, 2022 7:53:13 GMT -6
Reusable ends can work great as long as you have the correct ends for the hose. Another consideration is the number of hoses you intend to do as reusable are more expensive then crimp fittings Just like crimp fittings can work great as long as you have the correct ends for the hose. I have done price comparisons in the past, and for common hose ends like 7/8 JIC female swivel, the reusable fittings were actually cheaper. This is for one use. Use it twice, the cost halves. Use a crimp fitting once, then throw it away next time. Pricing will vary with different suppliers etc. |
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CTS2
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Post by CTS2 on Jan 23, 2022 7:56:33 GMT -6
It seems with those reusable ends, the construction of the hose even if its two hoses both with lets say a double braid, one hose works with the reusable fitting while the other is highly suspect in its ability to hold depending on the brand of the hose. Having said that, there seems to be more of a standard or at least a compatible hose with a matching type reusable end and being DOT rated when it comes to the lower pressure hoses used on highway tractors for instance for the tank to engine fuel system. Be it SAE or JIC angled fittings used with that outer cloth woven style hose and if one does use that same hose for an airline although they are not the best line to run from the trucks frame air fitting to brake pots for the eventual failure due to being flexed constantly by the suspension and the corrosion with the crap they spread on our roads, would work perfectly fine in Australia though. Have a look at the chart. Different hose end options, same hose. Rubber inside. Two layers of steel braiding. Rubber outside. Maybe it's an Australian thing? Seems such a difficult concept. I don't know why. |
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Post by kevlar on Jan 23, 2022 8:54:12 GMT -6
I remember some of the construction equipment I ran had the reusable fittings years ago, had never seen one on the farm as a kid until I seen those ones, was such a great idea. I can't remember what all they were on, but thought I remembered the track hoe having them, but I may be wrong on that. Is there a reusable type that requires a tool something like a crimper to put the ends on? I remember taking the hose to Cat in Brandon to get hoses fixed and seem to remember them reusing the ends but had a special tool for them?
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Post by northernfarmer on Jan 23, 2022 10:39:02 GMT -6
I don't believe the Princess Auto here even handles those reusable ends anymore like they used to, have not seen them when I have looked and the other factor is they had installed a hose crimping station in the store a few years back that they never used to have. Not one listing for these fittings in that store now. Other then what I mentioned in locations where they handle that outer cloth braid covered hose ( single steel braid internal ) and the reusable fittings that are commonly used on trucks for fuel and air, I don't think suppliers stock much at all of typical hydraulic hose reusable ends. With an item being so hard to come by and no real consistency of outer hose diameter for the internal diameter and hose spec ( single or double braid ) , I can only guess that its an even less popular item then it used to be. That isn't to say a supplier couldn't bring in such fittings but I know last year when I bought a few reusable fittings for the truck fuel line they were expensive. I know around here different shops charge differently when it comes to crimping on fittings, some charge so much a hose end while others charge nothing ( hose fittings and hose cost being equal or less that is ) . Without a doubt CTS2, if one has the matching type hose for those reusable fittings sitting at the ready on the farm and can repair a hose at any moment and not even have to take it off of the piece of equipment to accomplish the task, that definitely is a time and money saver. Unfortunately in the last years most of the hose I have had issues with were hose that was not all that old and was cheap Chinese crap single braid hose thrown on equipment and ether developed a leak along the length or at the crimp because of being such garbage hose and had to get whole new lengths made up, simply because the equipment manufacturer chose to go as cheap as they could and hoping it would make it past the one year warranty where they then can wash their hands of the mess.
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Post by Albertabuck on Jan 23, 2022 11:24:50 GMT -6
Good you bring them up, I don't mention them or suggest them for several reasons. They are not commonly used because they are not really suitable for the newer style of hoses or the higher pressures of more modern systems. Under 2K psi with standard hose, yea they work ok, but once you get into variations of hose layer thickness and construction, skive or non skive ect, things don't work so good anymore. The reusable fittings only will fit the specific size and type of hose they are made for. The crimp on in both styles compression and bit to wire can accommodate a very wide range of hose types. This is why there are charts of various specs for crimping depending on these factors. There is no variations possible with the screw on ends. This often results in either being too loose which can blow off easily, or overly tight with distorts the structure of the hose and or can make it impossible to assemble the same. Yes they are fine in some situations, but in the grand scheme of things in modern day equipment, not so much anymore. I'll raise you one higher, I bet I have more of those old barb and clamp style emergency repair fittings that everyone on this forum put together, so yea I will use whatever works best for the situation, I'm a cheap SOB when I can be lol, but I'm not going to suggest something where any variance from normal is going to result in a problem for someone. And besides, at the prices of hyd oil these days, to cheap out on a hose repair is silly IMO, a lot of standard hoses cost less than a pail of oil. If you want to have some, they can be bought at pretty much any hyd shop, industrial supply ect, trouble is, like I said, they only fit the size and type of hose they designed for. Example, one for single wire 3/8 rubber hyd hose, will not properly fit a 2 wire hose of same type. You are correct. Reusable fittings MUST be used on the correct hose. Just like crimped fittings MUST be used on the correct hose. Take a look at the chart and tell me how often you would be above the rated working pressure of these hoses. Then, have a look at the RHS of the chart, and see how the hoses can be fitted with either reusable or crimped fittings, on THE SAME HOSE. It's not different hose. If you require higher pressure, then yes, you get different hose, which cannot be fitted with screw on fittings. The T2000 and T7000 are crimp, the 6000 series are reusable. Or, field attachable as they call them. If a screw on reusable fitting type hose fails, you have done something wrong. OK no prob, I get it, you are very passionate about these fittings...to each their own. As I have said I use them now and then, time and a place for everything. As NF mentioned they are common in lower pressure situations,for example in the transport industry, but have lost favor on air systems to synflex in recent years. Simply put, the reason that the reusable fittings are not commonly used is, and perhaps this is a North America issue, where there is a large variance in hose type and construction and overall cost. In my experience, reusable fittings are roughly double the cost of crimp on, and there is a lot less variety of fitting type available, as like for special applications. As you say, the correct fitting must be used on the right hose. WIth reusable, you have one choice per. With crimp on, there are several, you simply adjust your crimper accordingly. As in one crimp on fitting does the work of several reusable. An issue instantly that surfaces there is the huge increase in cost and volume of inventory to do the same job. For example, simply R1 and R2 3/8 hose require two different resuable, one for each hose, crimp on use the same fitting on both hoses. With crimp on, a simple adjustment of the crimper solves the problem. Now multiply that over several different sizes and styles, the increase in additional cost to have inventory is huge, particularly in a smaller organization like a farm. Its simply one of the main reasons why its industry standard to use crimp on. That and build time, after all time is money too. And other reasons, another is there just simply isn't the selection of reusable that there is in other styles. Its not some conspiracy that they see limited use, there are reasons for it. But by all means, if one wants to use nothing but reusable ones, go for it. No its not a difficult concept, it comes down to practicality. Thats why crimp on is industry standard. |
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Post by Albertabuck on Jan 23, 2022 11:28:33 GMT -6
I remember some of the construction equipment I ran had the reusable fittings years ago, had never seen one on the farm as a kid until I seen those ones, was such a great idea. I can't remember what all they were on, but thought I remembered the track hoe having them, but I may be wrong on that. Is there a reusable type that requires a tool something like a crimper to put the ends on? I remember taking the hose to Cat in Brandon to get hoses fixed and seem to remember them reusing the ends but had a special tool for them? There is high pressure ones that are reusable, but they are not screw on, they use a tapered outer sleeve that is pressed into place over the hose and they have a barb that fits inside the hose. Seen most commonly on Cat equipment, but are becoming more popular with others. You require a special press to work with them. |
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Post by kevlar on Jan 23, 2022 11:42:26 GMT -6
Thanks, that’s what I thought I was remembering but wasn’t 100% sure, it’s been a while.
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Post by Albertabuck on Jan 23, 2022 12:38:53 GMT -6
Reusable ends can work great as long as you have the correct ends for the hose. Another consideration is the number of hoses you intend to do as reusable are more expensive then crimp fittings Just like crimp fittings can work great as long as you have the correct ends for the hose. I have done price comparisons in the past, and for common hose ends like 7/8 JIC female swivel, the reusable fittings were actually cheaper. This is for one use. Use it twice, the cost halves. Use a crimp fitting once, then throw it away next time. Pricing will vary with different suppliers etc. Had another thought while out with the cattle...what application are these hoses on that you are requiring to repair or replace them often enough that reusable fittings are your choice? The frequency suggested seems odd. I run several machines that are 40-50 years old still fitted with original hoses and crimped on fittings, hoses I made up myself 20 years ago still perfect...three things lead to failure of a hose, deterioration, damage or abuse, or improper installation of ends...so these hoses that you are repairing with the respectable ends, why are they failing in the first place? Not being a dick, I'm genuinely curious. Thanks |
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