|
Post by northernfarmer on Oct 2, 2021 16:39:36 GMT -6
I had never heard of this until some years back and its a wonder more people have not killed themselves over this due to not realizing the potential dangers. I edited and added another short video.
|
|
|
Post by torriem on Oct 2, 2021 17:27:45 GMT -6
Fascinating that even a tire that's not seated on the bead will still explode. Given his explanation, it makes sense.
This summer my cousin's hired hand hit a powerline with the sprayer boom (and didn't realize it), and a couple of hours later a tire exploded. Actually damaged all the tires. Having watched this video I now know why the tire exploded, and they are lucky the other three didn't explode later (perhaps while the tire crew was working on them).
|
|
|
Post by northernfarmer on Oct 2, 2021 18:30:59 GMT -6
Torriem, that sprayer ordeal is a great example of something that isn't intentional and yet with catastrophic results and since its not instantaneous in the moment it would not be thought of as a ticking time bomb at all. I also added a short video giving more of the idea of heating a wheel lug nut and the dummy set up who got the brunt of that ordeal.
|
|
|
Post by Beerwiser on Oct 2, 2021 19:37:31 GMT -6
Good post NF. I knew it was never a good idea to heat up a seated tire. I always thought pulling the valve core would be enough. I am curious to how much of a gap they had on the bead broken tire.
|
|
|
Post by Albertabuck on Oct 2, 2021 20:26:43 GMT -6
I have to give my father credit, guess I probably knew more about tires when I was kid than most truckers and such do as adults. As for the story of the tire blowing up with the beads broke, obviously the tire had somewhat reseated itself, maybe they only broke one side loose. Occasionally you will see a tubeless tire that will expand enough on its own it will catch when you put the air to it. Also remember, there is some fake drama involved in some of them stories as well, no different than the ones we all saw in shop class in junior high lol. Its amazing how many people will do the dumbest things when they can't think for themselves. There are some retarded vids out there of guys messing with things like ether to seat tires and they are doing it only because they heard about it, have no idea of the good bad or ugly about it, just heard some guy in a bar say it works. Much the same with the multi piece rims, very few will even touch them anymore, actually they can't in a ligit shop as all those rims technically have an expiry date, and well its been that long since they made the tube type. Those are the ones that have killed and maimed most people. If you don't know what you are doing, don't touch it. Goes for anything really. And yes, those rims are still legal for road use, the expiry date does not apply to those standards. Excessive rusting or a lock ring out of place will have you shut down quick. For me, all them I do without thinking, but I been doing them for years. There's a reason every time I get near a tire shop I almost always end up getting offered a job lol. I have the original printed books and wall charts for all wheels and rims used on medium and heavy duty trucks. They were free and sent out on request from Firestone and Alcoa. They quit printing them several years back. I found these links earlier this summer for my brother as he wanted some reference material for his own shop and I wasn't about to let go of any of mine. I'll add the links below. If you gonna mess with tires and rims, be safe. And also have the right tools. Not just for safety but so you don't damage the tires or rims either. I probably have over 20 different irons, some are specific for different lock rings ect, hammers and more. Three Esco mechanical bead breakers, the fluid pump and rigging for wet ones too. And used most of all my old Coats 2020 changer, funny how them older ones had more power than the newer ones. Of course its not much good for those newer aluminum wheels. Actually found my beadbreakers work good on them, then just use my irons from there. Also a large Branick spreader, makes putting in boots and such so much nicer. Haven't bite the bullet yet, but there is a Blue Cobra on the horizon, even brother wants one them. Sooooo slick them are! www.kentool.com/product/blue-cobra-truck-tire-demount-tool/Rim manuals and charts docplayer.net/20770706-Rim-wheel-safety-service-manual.htmlwww.accuridecorp.com/sites/default/files/resources/2020-01/W3.000%20Rev.%203%20Accuride%20Wheels%20Safety%20Service%20Manual.pdfwww.alcoawheels.com/alcoawheels/catalog/pdf/servicemanual-english.pdf
|
|
|
Post by northernfarmer on Oct 2, 2021 21:07:02 GMT -6
The reason I got thinking about this tire explosion issue as the simplified way of putting it, a couple of days ago I saw a neighbour getting some custom combining done by the local colony and I was curious what his canola was testing so went down the trail to the field and saw they had a flat on the rear tire of one of the colony's combines and they were lining up a picker truck to lift the rear of the combine and hoping to reseat the tire. Apparently those rims have an issue with cracking and this one had been welded on already and had cracked by the weld. They lifted up the end of the axle and then packed in the murphy soap on both sides and then here is where they diverted from what I tire shop would NEVER do and that is use starting fluid to reseat the tire. Of course its out in a stubble field and it is dry so there is that .... besides the concept of starting fluid and assume some potential dangers. They used most of the can in their efforts as initially there were flames but no bang and then its still on fire as they are attempting to spray more of it past the bead of the tire where they wiped the soap away, finally on a second try with the propane torch ( keep in mind the torch was almost blowing out as it was so windy ) the BANG happened and that tire seated all right and actually lifted the combine as it slammed back onto the rim with force. Two guys kneeling down beside the tire doing this you see and both of them got spattered with the soap all over their shirts and of course the young guy had sunglasses perched on top of his hat. I made sure to stand back a ways and facing the tire tread side out of harms way. I don't know if its possible for the starting fluid to have a chance in starting this internal tire issue or not and I realize this trick has been done many a time by some but I doubt its an ideal practice. I don't expect its in any of the tire mounting manuals you posted up AB ! LOL.
|
|
|
Post by SWMan on Oct 2, 2021 22:56:06 GMT -6
The ether trick is actually pretty common, I've seen it done lots. Doubt it would cause this to happen but who knows.
I have seen this happen from a dragging brake though, I was about 30' away and it was LOUD! Now if I encounter that situation I spray with water from afar.
|
|
ltk
Junior Member
Posts: 80 Likes: 98
|
Post by ltk on Oct 3, 2021 5:43:42 GMT -6
Fascinating that even a tire that's not seated on the bead will still explode. Given his explanation, it makes sense. This summer my cousin's hired hand hit a powerline with the sprayer boom (and didn't realize it), and a couple of hours later a tire exploded. Actually damaged all the tires. Having watched this video I now know why the tire exploded, and they are lucky the other three didn't explode later (perhaps while the tire crew was working on them). I had hooked a power line with a boom years ago. Distracted while unfolding. While trying to get off the line ( I was under the power, hung up on he ground line) the boom touched the power while still on the ground line. The farmer said that sparks were arcing from all four tires to the ground. Apparently, when my boom shorted the two lines it blew the transformer or a fuse or something a Atco had to come out and do some repairs. They never did find out why the power went down. While i had seem the video NF posted MANY times (have showed it to many people) it never occurred to me that the power line incident MIGHT have had a similar result. I was concerned about racing through bearings and such and was expecting some failures somewhere ij my machine from the electricity going through it but, about 500,000 acres later, no ill effects. Got lucky. Another former farmer come custom applicator from Eaglesham (NF probably knows him) hooked a power line with his new Nitro and it was a write off.
|
|
ltk
Junior Member
Posts: 80 Likes: 98
|
Post by ltk on Oct 3, 2021 5:46:02 GMT -6
The ether trick is actually pretty common, I've seen it done lots. Doubt it would cause this to happen but who knows. I have seen this happen from a dragging brake though, I was about 30' away and it was LOUD! Now if I encounter that situation I spray with water from afar. A friend of mines son was using the ether trick to seat a big off road tire for his pickup. It exploded, there rim when through the shop door and he got a broken arm. The doctor told him he had seen injuries before due to this practice but Danial was the first one that he seen that lived.
|
|
ltk
Junior Member
Posts: 80 Likes: 98
|
Post by ltk on Oct 3, 2021 5:53:23 GMT -6
Much the same with the multi piece rims, very few will even touch them anymore, actually they can't in a ligit shop as all those rims technically have an expiry date, and well its been that long since they made the tube type. Those are the ones that have killed and maimed most people. I know that is true for split rims. I think most have been destroyed, I have never seen one in the flesh, but are you also including split rings as a "multi piece" rim?. If so, I was not aware that they too are illegal. I've heard that most shops won't touch them but have not heard that they were illegal like the split rims.
|
|
|
Post by garyfunk on Oct 3, 2021 8:26:54 GMT -6
Trucker came to load grain one early morning quite a few years back. Had a tire off it's bead when he got here so he used the ether method to get it back on and proceded to air it up. Around 80psi I thought I could here some noises from the tire, seconds later it blew. Had nothing to do with the ether, tire was buggered from running low. Good thing it was the inside tire though.
Side note: According to my son, ether makes a great propellant for a potato cannon.
|
|
|
Post by Albertabuck on Oct 3, 2021 9:18:04 GMT -6
Def the ether thing works under some circumstances and there is a bit of a trick to get to work proper. I have done it myself numerous times but it is not something I like to rely on nor recommend to others. There are a few factors that come into play with doing it. Firstly, the ether today is not the ether we had 20 plus years ago, it like so many other things has been water down. Some brands are worse than others. Also the nozzles on the cans do not all atomize the fluid, many simply spray a stream of liquid. Believe it or not, much of this is due to it being misused, its a safety and liability thing, because of stupid people it has changed lol. You want to lite it from off to the side, I generally use a small propane torch or rolled up newspaper. You want to try to spread the ether out inside the tire, and not just spray it onto the rim or tire itself. Generally after a couple of tries, its best to purge the inside of the tire with air and start over. Its an emergency thing more than anything, much better ways to do it. In the past I've had tires come off the ground when they went whump, usually most try to use too much. Also if being done on a vehicle or such, the tire needs to be centered on the rim for it to work, same with using a blaster, you can't have the tire just hanging there. Like on a truck, I'll run the other tire up on a block, then slide a thinner block under the flat tie to position it at the right height. Bit of effort in the beginning makes things happen a lot faster in the end. Myself I only use it in a rare or special situation anymore. I built myself a bead blaster out of a 20 pounder propane bottle years ago and thats the best route. They have come down in price big time, well worth having if you have tubeless tires, especially on trucks and trailers. Like with NF and his Huts combine tire, I was impressed they had the Murphy soap out LOL, that stuff is a tire's best friend. However it sounds like the tire was not making decent contact with the beads to seat it. One way to over come this is to contract the center of the tire inwards, this causes the beads to push outwards. Due to friction of the rubber on the treads, you either need a special tool or what I use, and that is multiple ratchet straps, coupled together with the ratchets evenly spaced around the outside of the tire, then work your way around tightening each one little at a time. If you try to use too few you will end up with egg shaped bulges in the sidewalls and it makes sealing the tire virtually impossible. But when done as I explained, now you connect your air supply and hit it with the blaster and you should have things in place. Two things on air supply. Remove the core, you want as high of volume as possible. Secondly, have the air flowing PRIOR to using the blaster. But in the situation where you used a mechanical means to compress the tire, once you get a few pounds air into the tire, you need to release that external pressure quickly or things can get dangerous for as you add more air, the pressure on those straps goes higher, and much like in NF's first vid, boom, your straps will become projectiles.
There are tricks to make things work better. Like for example, I have a simple bit of rigging that makes life easy...instead of a a chuck to fit on the valve stem, its a few fittings and short piece of high pressure fuel line that goes on the end of the air supply. Some applications I have to clamp it onto the stem, others it holds by simply friction, but now you have unrestricted air flow and you don't have to monkey around trying to get a locking chuck to hold, and often unless pressed on completely, they don't open all the way either. And yea, of course, the more air you got the better. When I get into the big stuff, I break out the big gun, it will hold its own pushing over 100 PSI on a 3/8 line wide open, now things are happening lol.
And multi piece rims are just that, rims that are made up of two or more pieces. Vast majority are tube type. There are numerous types, everything from the bolted two piece British wheels to the multi piece tubeless rims still used on construction equipment today. In the automotive world, most tire shops will not touch any kind of multi piece rims anymore. They were rated with a life span of 25 years. Each rim is stamped with the date manufactured. It is in the regulations and in the books what the industry rules are. That don't mean there aren't shops who will work them, but those are very few and far between. Most people today don't know about them and that makes them even more dangerous than before. A good example of this is dealing the DOTs and the rims IH used in the 50s and 60s, the main part of the rim was split at the slot for the valve all the way thru the lock ring side, they were made this way by Firestone for IH, and its so they are easier to dismount the tire after use. Well they see that split and think its a crack and thus begins the history lesson lol. I'll address it simply based on safety, but I believe the wheels being asked about are a "true" split rim, otherwise known as widowmakers, made much like the bolted British rims, the rim is in two halves. Again they have not been made in a long time and they are without question the most dangerous of them all and even myself will not mess with those. I own some, but have also acquired enough of the newer style to replace them as needed and always recommend others do the same. Biggest issue with them is they rust between the two halves and the edges which lock them together are destroyed. I have had them actually let go bolted on a truck just sitting. They were only used on trucks up to about three ton, incredible amount of school buses used to run them too. Only will ever see them in a Budd mount, usually 5, 6 or 10 studd. Most popular with Ford and GM vehicles. As yet it is not illegal to operate a vehicle with them, but given no one will work on them, they pretty much have been removed from use by elimination. Anyone using an old wagon ect with them on it, becareful guys, they are a ticking time bomb really. I only have one truck with them still, little '67 GM 950 two ton, my old water truck. but I do have the newer style to put on it if I ever use it again.
|
|
|
Post by Albertabuck on Oct 3, 2021 9:39:17 GMT -6
Oh and yea, electricity and tires don't mix, yea it makes them go boom really quick. Of course its more so an issue with radials with steel belts. An old bias ply won't do it unless it is a massive amount of voltage.
In my Mullen lease op days by fluke I ended up with one of the last pics of a large picker before it got nuked, took a pic of my KW loaded up with the A legs of a large triple, picker was in background. Ten minutes later they moved across the lease, raised and swung the boom and well the electrical pop was louder than when the tires blew lol.
Also dealt with a few power line picker contacts when I was with Raydan, had one that even spot welded the bearings in the transmission. You get enough current flowing, bad things happen. Luckily in all situations I was ever involved in directly or indirectly no one was hurt or killed. Often thats not the case.
|
|
|
Post by northernfarmer on Oct 3, 2021 12:44:41 GMT -6
AB, the tire fitup wasn't bad actually although not perfect but the Murphy soap took care of that and in fact on the outer sidewall they were struggling to find an air gap to blow the starting fluid into. I'll bet they had a bead blaster back at the shop where the picker truck started out from and the correct fitting to put into the valve stem after the main core assembly had been turned out as well. Had they switched their mentality to standard tire shop practices and with that truck crane having done most of the work for them, they would have had a good result with very low hazard involved and no chance of starting a raging field fire ether. Of course to top off the danger aspect they were both between the side of the tire and the side of the picker truck. I knew if anything went wrong I would be the person who would be going over to one of the other combines or super B to tell them to call the meat wagon.
The comment about the potato gun as some call them, units made up of ABS plastic and a spark striker, indeed they have some power and in fact had heard from someone in the area that had taken a hard turnip which he had pointed the the one end and shot it at a wooden grain bin and it blasted through the wall. We might be reduced to resorting to that type of artillery in the near future for reasons we can all see happening in Canada !
|
|
|
Post by northernfarmer on Oct 3, 2021 14:48:30 GMT -6
|
|