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Post by kevlar on Sept 16, 2021 21:39:23 GMT -6
Hey maybe I didnt catch your drift kevlar but thought you said your were putting a mover on it also. How does that work with an electric motor moving a hydraulic auger mover? long cord? A 10 to 15 hp electric motor cant be much difference in price to a vanguard gas job? I want to try and measure the decibels of my meridian 10by 46 to my neighbours westfield 10 by 41 with a kohler motor while both are running soybeans thru them. After harvest I want to try that because I have notice the meridian runs smoother and my ears dont start ringing like my old 10by 41 westfield. Ya just a longer cord, we have 3 different plug locations along our row of bins. Same hydraulic mover as on a gas, just pop the belts off and away you go. Not quite as handy having to move a cord around, but a lot nicer on a cold winters morning, and sooo much quieter. Have a 10 horse available on another auger, that would then get the gas job off our current main auger. Was thinking today there is also a 14 horse motor on our dryer that we could swap out if the ten is a little short. The 14 was just shy on the dryer to run everything, so we added a ten to run the plenum fan, and could use the 10 from the auger to run the cooling fan and discharge auger. That's if our friend/electrician shows up, like he was going to 3 weeks ago! lol Only have a week of drying left to do, so hopefully it will be all electric for next year.
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Post by hardrockacres on Sept 17, 2021 13:54:40 GMT -6
I have a 8" x 40 sakundiak load out auger that is run by a 7.5 hp electric..it has no issues with anything I have used it for so far, wet or dry. Been on the farm for over 10 years. The motor has ample power for the auger. The 10" is about 50 larger in area and is rated at about 2x the capacity so I would think the 15hp might be adequate...but again the spec is 20hp.
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Post by kenmb on Sept 18, 2021 7:17:55 GMT -6
As always, how it is geared/pulleyed will decide how well any given driver works. A guy can put a 5hp on a 10" and it will work just fine, auger what ever you want, just the bushels per hour will be on the lower end of things. Kevlar, keep in mind all electric motors are not the same. It's like swapping out a 200 hp Cummins 8.3l in a grain truck with a 283 v8 gas engine tuned to 375hp. The 375hp with more hp must perform better than a 200hp so it is a no brainer it would seem. Well not really. Same with electric motors, many different designs - generally based on whether the electric motor is needed for producing lots of torque on startup or needs torque when up to speed. A crusher vs a fan are two very different requirements for an electric motor. So is starting an auger full of grain vs a fan or pump.
Talked to a Meridian engineer in Regina about my swing auger smld10-72. Told him it is terribly low on bph so conversation basically centered around their recommended operating speed of 450 rpm. He said that it is not really an optimal speed or anything to do with driveline, etc. He basically said to watch the cover on the head of the swing and run the auger as fast as I want until I see that cover start to lift. That indicates the main tube is being overfed. So their 450rpm guideline is basically a number choosen at which the main tube should never be overfed. The main flight and swing are geared 1:1 so he said a guy could maybe gain a bit by speeding up via gearing the flights in the hopper.
Also asked about the HD 10x46 and gearing it down. He didn't think it would be an issue but did ponder if slowing the fighting a bit will allow the cups of the flighting to fill a little more thus essentially raising the torque requirements. As he said, all you can do is try it and see how it works out.
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Post by northernfarmer on Sept 18, 2021 9:36:46 GMT -6
Ken, the swing auger issue reminds me of an older sprayair 10" swing we have and it didn't take long to realize that the swing auger was able to easily overfeed the main auger and I would say in part due to the whole boot and head design as it doesn't have a long enough bottom boot nor a head design that is expanded to allow free passage of grain and certainly not grass seed. I bought a different sprocket probably from sprayair to regear the speed of the swing as that is possible with the external mechanical drive system it uses. That helped a lot but still if its up to a taller bin its going to still over run the main auger and want to pop the cover and I had to put a tarp strap around the cover to hold it down so it can't just pop open easy as otherwise its just shovelling the grain out. I would give that a try if you are able to resprocket the whole swing auger drive speed via the sprockets ( have not seen an auger like yours so don't know the design ) and give that a whirl.
Interesting that the engineer pointed out the very issue I have theorized on with filling more of the augers space between the flights when the auger is run slow. That again is where having a slide cover to control the intake ability would be an asset and for around a grain dryer with electric motors driving augers that certainly helps with control of auger loading so they can start up with less torque and also run more freely when running rather then the auger being packed with product, more important yet on the wet side of a dryer system as an auger run full of tough grain can put the whole auger drive system beyond its ability and blow up the mechanical drive.
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Post by kenmb on Sept 18, 2021 20:14:00 GMT -6
I was running the swing at 540 rpm in flax today and still not very impressed. There is an access panel where the hopper joins the swing auger and I can see that cavity is full of grain so don't see speeding up the hopper trough augers as being effective. I suspect you might be right NF about gearing up the swing. Basically the main auger gets fed to operate at max efficiency by the design. That is, the swing is dumping right into it. Where as the swing has some inefficiencies with trying to collect the grain from the hopper. Speeding up the swing might be the way to improve things. The Meridian is certainly a bigger auger tube, I think 3/4" larger diameter then Westfield if I remember right when I measured the two. A 10" auger spout does not fit a 10" Meridian very well.
As for the truck loading auger, I was thinking also about the slide cover initially but it would require some significant rework for the intake to redo that cage. It would be nice but my metal fab skills are not that good.
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Post by meskie on Sept 18, 2021 21:20:44 GMT -6
You mean you have used an auger and the cage is still attached? At least the meridian is bolted on…. Our Westfield needed the zip cut.
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Post by northernfarmer on Sept 18, 2021 22:03:37 GMT -6
Ken it sounds like you have the opposite problem to what I was having happen with the sprayair, it was far too easy to overfeed the main auger due to what I still feel are design flaws that gave a bottle neck in that whole drop system and exaggerated it greatly when up to a taller bin. Yours sounds like it can take more in the main boot system then what the swing portion is able to deliver with its overall geared speed. You would know when it reaches its max at the head of the swing as it would start kicking out of the trap door.
Another example I have here is an older Westfield 13" swing and at that time they used smaller diameter twin augers in the hopper and it doesn't seem physically possible to fill the main auger or not at least to the height bins I have with its 91' of length and has a considerably less max capacity then the 13" farm king swing. Never the less it doesn't cause a problem so I don't worry about it as it still moves grain way faster then a typical 10" swing auger.
It may be possible with a cage to create a sliding cover but I've had to throw the cage of any newer straight auger off due to restrictive bins that don't allow for a monster bottom diameter. I will say though a cage sure would be nice to retain as far as its intended safety aspect, augers are a dangerous piece of equipment without a doubt.
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Post by kenmb on Sept 19, 2021 7:32:07 GMT -6
No, the safety screen came off before I even parked the truck after towing the auger home. Yes, wheatheart needed a cutoff disc also to remove. I mean the cage that is created around the fighting and form the lower bushing support.
The Meridian is a 1:1 gear ratio of main tube to swing, so a guy would think that in this scenario the main tube should be better fed/more efficient at collecting grain delivered to it then the swing tube. One of these days I will look at the old Westfield and see how that is geared. It's all more of an exercise in curiousity at this point. But it is rather disappointing to see a brand new Meridian parked next to a wore out and patched Westfield and know the Westfield is easier to move around and position, needs less daily maintenance, and moves grain faster. The Meridian sure looks more impressive in every way, just not in function.
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Post by northernfarmer on Sept 19, 2021 8:14:05 GMT -6
Ken, is your old westfield a single auger flight system or double as I heard at the time we bought ours that there more then likely would be a reduction in capacity with the two flight system westfield had back then but I wanted an auger hopper that would fit under trailers as good as possible so chose that design. I have to say that is very odd how a more modern design with a larger tube auger isn't able to flow as much as a well worn auger, certainly something is different and if that is auger flighting pitch over all or just a bottle neck physically within the swing to deliver the grain the main auger is capable of moving. Does this new auger have a sprocket system on the front of the boot to take power from the main shaft over to the lower gear box within the head ( a means of changing the over all geared ratio between the two then and room to change sprocket diameters )
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Post by kenmb on Sept 19, 2021 10:53:27 GMT -6
Yes, old Westfield is the single large auger. I suspect it may help but on the other hand, the two auger system seems to cram enough grain into where the single auger picks it up. Yes, Meridian has a chain and gears to take power off PTO input to main flight and transfer to swing. Gears are involved. I need to to count teeth to confirm 1:1. I need to time dumping a load into new auger. After running the same truck and auger for 25 years I have a pretty good idea of end gate chute open position. I am noticeably less open when feeding Meridian in all grains.
Oh yeah, and the Meridian likes to spray grain around when dumping into it. The Westfield would typically only leave grain on ground around hopper if I screwed up or another patch needed on bottom of hopper.
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Post by northernfarmer on Sept 19, 2021 13:27:11 GMT -6
That seems to be a theme at least for both of my twin auger hopper swing augers is flipping grain around unless it hits into the hopper from the grain trailer in a certain area and having the hydraulic in my case powered wheels to move the hopper I have to adjust to get into the minimal flip zone. Now some people pile grain up in the hopper trying to get all the capacity they can but I typically don't as I only allow the hopper to build up a little at the end where it is taken away and part of that is because of power requirements with limited hp on the tractor I typically use on the Farm King and also so I don't have it suddenly pile up and flow over if I don't happen to be standing there. If you also don't tend to pile the grain in the hopper, experiment with that to see if the new auger will take more and more away as you fill the hopper more.
On a side note its been said that some have damaged their augers by having had grain hit their top spout and plug the outflow as per filling bins and my westfield only had one sheer bolt and through the years have sheered it a few times although not intentionally ( shit happens ) , and with my farm king it has two spots for sheer bolts and I only use one to help protect the auger and since I don't push the auger capacity it works out fine in wheat and have not had it sheer in normal use.
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Post by kenmb on Sept 19, 2021 19:44:06 GMT -6
Well shit. Now it's more than just curiosity. Did a run of 9.5% flax, ran 4020 at 2000rpm so about 560 rpm on PTO, did 850 bu (650 in truck, 200 in combine) and it was 17 minutes. So what, 3200bph? Ok, flax may be a little slippery or something but this is confirming my grumbling. 19ft 5400bu hopper so about 27' elevation, nothing crazy.
Checked gears on both Meridian and Westfield and they are 1:1 ratio of main tube to swing tube so no surprises there.
Think I will talk to Meridian engineer some more. Will need to time it in barley when I turn some bins next week. I am not much for complaining or taking stuff back because it isn't working but if this auger is only going to do 4000bph with tractor well above rated rpm then I have been had.
As for the hopper NF, yes once again the Meridian is impressive. Liked everything from the removable screen with wing nuts, to the solid support a guy can stand on cleaning out box corners. The POS Westfield screen was welded in, one single round tube down center and a peaked screen so not as nice to stand on. Meridian hands down better looking at it, but the Westfield just works better - no grain splash. The geniuses at Meridian have two square tubes running across hopper and rather than tilt 45deg or use pipe, they have the flat surface to aid in grain striking it and bouncing off. Peas are crazy, I have a wood frame about 12" high to put on hopper to dump thru. I have electric swing on hopper and position as best I can but still grain bouncing around. First world problems, small grievance, but factual.
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Post by kevlar on Sept 19, 2021 21:15:04 GMT -6
Something sure doesn't seem right. I have an old 8 inch I can sell you that will almost move that much grain an hour. Do you know if the gear box is a 1:1? If it's not, is there a chance it was installed the wrong way and running the swing slower than it should? Just thinking of things it could be, it should surely do better than that.
Not sure if I'm a fan of the double flight swings. The 13 inch Westfield we got this fall has this, I'm not impressed with the clean out, quite a bit of grain left in it after dumping. Also a lot more parts to cause issues, 2 chains, 3 bearings, 4 sprockets, and two bushings. If I had the option, would likely have gone with a single flight, knowing what I know now, trailer clearance isn't an issue for us.
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Post by kenmb on Sept 20, 2021 6:43:06 GMT -6
I am thinking something is wrong with the fighting on the swing. Installed upside down so cups are inverted, wrapped wrong on shaft of something. Going to look in that direction now.
Yes, I would be happier with a single flight hopper also but I don't know if anyone makes them anymore. Not even on the 10".
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Post by meskie on Sept 20, 2021 7:34:26 GMT -6
We had way more problems with our 10” swing with the single auger compared to our 13” with the two augers.
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