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Post by kenmb on Sept 13, 2021 7:12:08 GMT -6
I was really leaning towards a PTO 10" auger so was looking a lot at diesel torque specs and what my 26hp Kubota would do. Figured a 35hp tractor would do nicely. But there is something to be said for a all-in-one unit.
Gearing on the 10x46 is 16t to 32t sprockets so 2:1. I figure dropping to a 14t might be worth a try for me. Chain is made in China so wouldn't be a huge deal to have to take some links out as soon it will be replaced with a better chain if I muck around with ratios a little more.
Have an old sakundiak 7x41 I use for fertilizer out of a bin. It had a twin 18hp that was giving grief and dropping a cylinder which really sucks loading fertilizer. Had a PTO laying around so bolted that on. Took a stab at pulley sizing and don't have it quite right. I am guessing around 1800rpm is rated speed for fighting where as tractor is 2600rpm for 540. So I need to keep tractor throttled back and not in its power band. It is interesting to see what a lot of torque can do on an old auger. I guess how much I am overworking it by watching how much the frame and spout sway. Usually a foot of movement side to side of the spout tells me a lot of torque is being applied to the unit. And I have messed up and killed the Kubota already. But again, that's because I am at around 2000 rpm. I wouldn't mind doing another pulley change to get the fighting speed to better match tractor max rpm.
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Post by northernfarmer on Sept 13, 2021 8:29:02 GMT -6
As you can see how insane or not well thought out that sprocket swap was that I mentioned as a 2 to 1 ratio swapped becomes four times the speed if I am thinking correctly.
To me it makes sense to contemplate what you are with a slight change in sprocket size but beware that its highly likely those sprockets have heat treated teeth as not all sprockets do and would not last well. Also I've run into the issue if an auger is run steep for any reason that running it too slowly in a case like that and canola can be a bad one for doing this, it dumping over the backside of the flighting ( you can't see this happening of course ) and literally packing the auger completely full and plug the auger. Its a weird phenomenon and had it happen when water accumulated in the fuel filter and the engine was struggling and going slow and it was stuck into a bin of canola and for reasons of the door system on the bin I had to have the auger cranked all the way up. I thought flighting had collapsed or something but that was not the case.
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Post by kenmb on Sept 13, 2021 9:10:46 GMT -6
Yes, that sprocket reversal you mention is a good example of throwing stuff at a wall and see what sticks.
I haven't shopped for a sprocket yet but will keep that in mind. I beleive manufactures build things and operators learn how to use it as built. I don't mind owning things and making the product better fit my needs. Too many people say don't change something because the manufacturer built it that way for a reason. While that is true, it is also not necessarily applicable to every possible change contemplated.
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Post by northernfarmer on Sept 13, 2021 10:01:23 GMT -6
Speaking of auger speeds, some years ago I had spoken to an engineer at Sskundiak and he was mentioning certain speeds for each auger flighting diameter that have been established and that overspeeding an auger may not gain any more capacity and even if it does slightly its putting a lot of wear and tear on it due to the overspeed. Also that concept of double flighting at the bottom of an auger which I know Westfield used to do actually decreases the auger intake capacity depending on the type of grain flowing into it. I also brought up the sprocket system with no oil bath vs some that do use that system and he said in all honesty the simple system works and is easy to get access to as the oil bath can start leaking and its not being checked as its a lot more hassle to work with.
The augers would be geared to get the maximum capacity out of them without overspeeding the flighting, slowing it down some from that at the top end is no different then slowing the engine down some, can't see why it wouldn't work and allow the engine some breathing room.
I don't know what others do in lubing the auger head chain but I've used grease for years and feel its really worked well. Ideally using grease with moly in it but moly is certainly a messy grease to work with. I used to use gear oil but found the grease would last much longer. Perhaps the special chain sprays work as well, have not had enough experience with those products.
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Post by kevlar on Sept 15, 2021 20:05:23 GMT -6
Ordered a Westfield 10x41 today. Just the auger, we have an electric motor and hydraulic mover we will move from another auger to this one. Our poor old $500 8 inch auger we bought a few years ago just for the mover, will now get to retire.
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Post by Oatking on Sept 16, 2021 6:49:04 GMT -6
Ordered a Westfield 10x41 today. Just the auger, we have an electric motor and hydraulic mover we will move from another auger to this one. Our poor old $500 8 inch auger we bought a few years ago just for the mover, will now get to retire. What size electric motor runs a 10x41?
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Post by hardrockacres on Sept 16, 2021 7:27:01 GMT -6
Meridian specs it as a 20hp electric.
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Post by garyfunk on Sept 16, 2021 7:47:33 GMT -6
That's going to take a pretty hefty cord.
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Post by kevlar on Sept 16, 2021 7:59:00 GMT -6
They sell them complete with a 10 horse electric. That was my plan, now you guys have me worried! Worse case, we end up buying a big gas motor, then I get to join the conversation about how terrible those motors are! lol
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Post by kenmb on Sept 16, 2021 8:15:13 GMT -6
10hp sounds short to me. Look up the brochures for Brandt, meridian, agi etc and they give recommended hp ratings although those likely are sized to run the auger at max elevation which most of us never intend to do. But generally an electric and diesel would be close to same hp. Reqied Hp needed in form of electric generally less than diesel. It comes down to torque and the winner is electric, 2nd diesel, distant 3rd is gas.
I would really like to run electric but my 1 Ph 220v service says no sir.
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Post by garyfunk on Sept 16, 2021 8:52:54 GMT -6
Maybe a little late info but our 10-51 Westfield has the 35hp carbereted Vanguard. Just over a year and started it during some pretty cold weather last winter and no complaints so far. No tough wheat but it has augered tough 56lb barley and 65lb peas no problem. It does take a couple thousand bushels to polish up the tube though.
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Post by Albertabuck on Sept 16, 2021 9:27:18 GMT -6
Its my understanding that many of the recommended specs for electric motors are often at the bottom of the load ratings, as in, minimum requirements. Honestly I can't see a ten horse running a 40 foot ten inch at capacity. I have a couple of 6 inch rigged with 2hp, but they're geared down thru the pulleys, more for convenience than capacity.
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Post by kevlar on Sept 16, 2021 11:59:24 GMT -6
Will be a couple weeks before we get it. So if in two weeks there’s a discussion titled “How To Unplug A 10 Inch Auger “ , we will all know the answer!!
It will just be for loading trucks, so won’t be raised up to high, went with the 41 instead of 36 for that reason. Someday when I have my dream grain handling system, an auger will be obsolete. I’ll likely be too old to even know who I am, but I won’t be moving an auger!
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jvdl
New Member
Posts: 45 Likes: 12
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Post by jvdl on Sept 16, 2021 13:32:03 GMT -6
I have a 10 by 40 farm king with a 10hp electric, it is okay at capacity but if you put anything slightly tuff in it you will be uplugging it if you don’t greatly reduce flow. I really like it to unload dry bin. When I set the auger up they recommend 15 hp but had a 10hp around so tryed it and it works if your careful.
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Post by Oatking on Sept 16, 2021 21:02:54 GMT -6
Hey maybe I didnt catch your drift kevlar but thought you said your were putting a mover on it also. How does that work with an electric motor moving a hydraulic auger mover? long cord? A 10 to 15 hp electric motor cant be much difference in price to a vanguard gas job? I want to try and measure the decibels of my meridian 10by 46 to my neighbours westfield 10 by 41 with a kohler motor while both are running soybeans thru them. After harvest I want to try that because I have notice the meridian runs smoother and my ears dont start ringing like my old 10by 41 westfield.
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