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Post by kenmb on Sept 9, 2021 7:01:07 GMT -6
This new Kohler has a line coming from the cylinder valley and into base of air filter housing.
I haven't been working on new vehicles to see how they look but I remember many years ago that those pcv lines and valves would get slimmed up with crankcase condensation and could freeze up.
On a side note, replaced the pcv valve assembly on the wife's vw Tiguan this summer. When cold it was stalling occasionally. Codes being shown weren't pointing me in any worthwhile direction. Guessed right that the pcv valve was ruptured/open all the time allowing added air into the intake that wasn't been recognized by the air/fuel monitoring system and causing a lean condition. When engine is warm the vapors being drawn in are combustible so all is ok.
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Post by kenmb on Sept 9, 2021 7:14:25 GMT -6
Ekay mover is around $8500
Both Meridian and Agi/Westfield have price increases hitting now of around 5 to 10% depending who you talk with. Augers on the lot are at old prices, anything ordered will be new pricing. Because of "inflation", or more precisely - money printing going off the charts in recent years.
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Post by Oatking on Sept 9, 2021 17:17:32 GMT -6
I think I need my eyes checked , I was at the westfield lot in Rosenort and thought I saw an 18 inch swing auger cant remember the lenght. Makes the 16 inch look small. Any one running an 18 inch swing auger yet?. Thought if a guy is running multiple X9s you will need some fierce monster of an unload auger at the yard. Yikes! Imagine plugging that thing up. Some guys entire canola crop will fit in that auger tube this year! Sad but true!
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Post by jcalder on Sept 9, 2021 22:13:31 GMT -6
It sounds like maybe it's the higher horse engines that give the issues? Ours have all been 25 and under. Only issue we've had with ours is when I forget to take the warm air intake hose off from the muffler when it's 30 above! Understandably runs like crap and doesn't start good after. You may be correct, our 8" 36' has a smaller power Kohler and it has none of the issues the big one does.
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Post by meskie on Sept 10, 2021 0:07:05 GMT -6
I think I need my eyes checked , I was at the westfield lot in Rosenort and thought I saw an 18 inch swing auger cant remember the lenght. Makes the 16 inch look small. Any one running an 18 inch swing auger yet?. Thought if a guy is running multiple X9s you will need some fierce monster of an unload auger at the yard. Yikes! Imagine plugging that thing up. Some guys entire canola crop will fit in that auger tube this year! Sad but true! Only during the day. Once the sun goes under you would only need a 10” auger to keep up to multiple X9s. 🤣
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Post by kenmb on Sept 12, 2021 8:20:08 GMT -6
So have concluded a few things after using this hd10 46 auger a little bit
1) it's way short on torque 2) it moves a lot of grain fast 3) my new Meridian slmd 10 72 is way short of 5500bu/hr I was expecting
1. Plugged it twice so far, wheat and barley. Using a big orange hopper under a hopper bin and running maybe 2/3 throttle (thinking a tach would be nice) as I am breaking it in and also trying to reduce seed spray from hopper. Cut the throttle a wee bit more and by the time I hear it starting to labor and slow I can't move quick enough to shut bin gate or increase throttle. Reversing gear box is handy so I can bail out the hopper and get auger going. Throttling up and engaging clutch doesn't do it.
So I am a little concerned if I can stick this auger into a flatbottom bin and stop the auger at any given time to go unload the truck or whatever. Do I need to pull the auger out while full and empty it before disengaging clutch? The 8" has a 27hp and I am used to throttling right down to idle as needed if in a bin or any situation where auger has intake fully covered with grain. Throttle down to idle, speed up, or disengage clutch the restart. All no problem. But it is 27 hp for about 2800bph vs 38 hp for 6000bph. The Kohler has a pretty flat torque curve of 55 ish ft lbs from 2200 to 3400 rpm. I don't know if I got under 2000 rpm, hard to say when it stalls out. Pretty sure I won't be able to stick this auger into a bin and get it going again with tube full. Anyone know?
Maybe it needs more grain through it to shine up tube more. Did about 3000 bu wheat and 5000bu barley so far.
2) was transferring grain from hopper bin, into raised truck box, dumping into swing to another bin. 10" swing not keeping up running at the Meridian recommended 450 rpm while the 10x46 I am running at maybe 2/3 throttle. The time I plugged the 10x46 in barley I was cutting back throttle a wee bit to allow the swing to keep up.
Thinking I might change gearing in head end of 10x46 to slow it down a bit and give more torque. Don't like the idea of needing to run the auger at near peak speed to keep torque up to prevent stalling. Got used to the 8" and being able to run whatever throttle position I want, but if the 10" moves twice the grain then roughly speaking a guy needs a 50 hp motor. So best compromise I can see while keeping the 38hp is to gear down some.
Does any of this fit others experience? If I can't use this in a flat bottom bin and restart it without first emptying the tube then it is really going to cut down on the usefulness.
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Post by meskie on Sept 12, 2021 8:45:49 GMT -6
You need to run it full throttle and check the full load rpm. Ours was short 2-300 when we first got it. We never had a problem starting it fully loaded. Just loosen the belts flip the clutch and engage them. Those engines are designed to run full rpm and don’t do well with full load bc at reduced speed.
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Post by Oatking on Sept 12, 2021 8:47:09 GMT -6
I never run my 10by 46 under 3000rpms. Only when I start it slowly to stop the seed spilling when I first open the hopper gate. Honestly my 38HP Vanguard has never been shot of power. The engine peaks at around 3250 to 3300 rpm so i run it at almost full throttle.
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Post by kenmb on Sept 12, 2021 9:03:13 GMT -6
Ok, I can see I just have to learn a new way to run this unit. That is fine.
Yes Meskie, it occurred to me later yesterday that I should have used the motor moving lever. Got used to the electric clutch and forgot how we did it in the years before. A little apprehensive that won't work on this unit but good to know it will.
It is really, really nice to run the 8" and use any throttle position in any situation.
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Post by northernfarmer on Sept 12, 2021 12:09:45 GMT -6
I had contemplated buying that same auger this spring as it probably costs a lot more now and that was an old stock unit, unfortunately they had only put the 35 hp vanguard on it and wanted more power than that as those 10" x 46 augers need power. It is frustrating that a larger engine isn't built in a gas model, no they wouldn't be that efficient but a diesel with enough power would be quite the investment if one isn't using it enough to justify it. If one was able to make a half round slide on top to partially cover the flighting, that would sure come in handy sometimes to limit the grain intake. Good question how much grain it takes to polish up a 10" auger, I'd guess at least two to three times what you've run through it to get a meaningful polish job as even the 8" auger takes some bushels to get to a place where it isn't being loaded down for the type of grain going through it.
Meskie, what RPM type reading instrument were you using to check the speed of your engine. I've only had a mechanical tach to hold on the end of the shaft and never sure how accurate that is.
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Post by meskie on Sept 12, 2021 14:02:57 GMT -6
I have a multi meter with a clamp that goes around the plug wire to check rpm. I have also used a timing light that clamps around the plug wire.
We haven’t powered out the 35hp vanguard on our 10x46 yet. We have powered out the 38hp kohler on our 10x41 Westfield though. The Westfield has a terrible belt set up that will slip before you power out the engine too much. The triple v belt on the meridian is far superior
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Post by kenmb on Sept 12, 2021 17:44:11 GMT -6
I looked for torque curve for the 37hp vanguard and couldn't find anything. I beleive the vanguard is a longer stoke/smaller bore than the Kohler. An auger is a great application of torque to do work so the vanguard may have an advantage here. And if a guy was to put a diesel on, you don't necessarily need a 50hp diesel to address the power issue. A 35hp diesel probably has 50% more torque than the gas unit. I don't move enough grain to justify a diesel but I may change some gears in the drive head just to help out a bit. 6000bph isn't really needed for me, I think I would get more use out of a little more torque in way of giving me a little wider operating range.
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Post by northernfarmer on Sept 12, 2021 19:29:02 GMT -6
Some time ago I had looked at some charts for small diesel engines ( probably kubota ) and was surprised that a similar HP engine to the gas engines did not have any more torque from what I recall as I had assumed they would have had way more. Would have to look again to do some comparisons.
One of the neighbours has a U trough style auger from AGI and I think its a bit shorter then 46 feet and is a 10" unit. He has a 35 hp Vanguard and it certainly does not have enough power for that style of auger. He was augering dry wheat out of a hopper bin and his pad is really elevated so the auger was not very steep to the truck and he had to control that bin opening as otherwise you could hear it start to bog and slow down. Not exactly a fair comparison since its that U style unit but it certainly could have used more power.
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Post by kenmb on Sept 12, 2021 20:06:51 GMT -6
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Post by northernfarmer on Sept 12, 2021 22:09:53 GMT -6
That spec does stand out much better Ken, perhaps it was a Kohler diesel or some other make, not sure. Definitely this engine you pulled up has a lot more cc going for it and that is also part of the problem with these gas engines that they are only two cylinder and not enough displacement. One problem is that the diesels run slower and so either a smaller pulley is placed on the gear box or a larger pulley on the engine and seems most of these electric clutches are on the engine and is a set unit. I assume anyone that has installed a diesel had a method of setting something up to run the auger the same speed as the gas equivalent.
On the topic of regearing the top end of the auger I thought you might find this amusing, a neighbour who's son thought it was a great idea for his dad to swap the existing sprockets around on the top of their 10" x 31' westfield PTO auger as they figured with the tractor they ran it with that all it would have to do is just go above an idle to turn over fast enough with the 540 PTO. Well I am not sure if that is a 2 to 1 reduction ratio at the top end but swapping the sprockets increases the speed a few times over and if you thought a Westfield rattled when it ran empty, this one was beyond insane as he had to slow the tractor right down to an idle before the grain flow was shut off and then get that auger shut down as soon as it was almost empty. I just happened to be in their yard when they were using it and I asked what is going on with that auger and he explained and then said this just isn't working out, we will have to swap the sprockets back. I mentioned that with the swapped sprockets that if there was ever a higher load placed on the auger there was a good chance the gear box would blow up or the top shaft would twist up as they were running slow with a high torque load and not designed for that. Or maybe a Westfield is made that good it can handle it ? LOL.
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