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Post by Oatking on Jan 19, 2021 22:26:16 GMT -6
I have a couple of these engines on the farm and was wondering if anybody is experiencing any major problems with this engine. Have any farmers had the emission junk deleted on this engine. I am getting mine deleted since its off warranty. I have heard of coolant leaks from failed emission control issues but i dont know how common it is. any comment would help. thanks
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ddf
New Member
Posts: 18 Likes: 14
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Post by ddf on Jan 20, 2021 8:16:27 GMT -6
I have a couple of these engines on the farm and was wondering if anybody is experiencing any major problems with this engine. Have any farmers had the emission junk deleted on this engine. I am getting mine deleted since its off warranty. I have heard of coolant leaks from failed emission control issues but i dont know how common it is. any comment would help. thanks I could be wrong, but I believe the 13l has the same variable speed fan drive as the 9l? If so, this is a chronic issue. If caught early, it’s not to bad, but many get past the point of just replacing bushings.
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Post by torriem on Jan 20, 2021 9:24:00 GMT -6
Have a 13.5 L engine here on a 9330. It's Tier 3, so it has a lot of EGR on it, which makes the oil dirty. EGR is controlled by a valve that can stop working from all the soot and is pricey to fix. Also this engine seems to have injectors go bad more often than other engines. Over a year ago we had one cylinder misfiring from that. Dealer had to replace all the injectors and that was a bit pricey. $10k when all was said and done. They told me this is a common thing on these engines and no one knows why. Although I suspect it's from the EGR soot.
Ekotuning sells a program for the ECU that forces the EGR valve to stay shut and tunes the turbo parameters, effectively deleting the EGR. I ran mine with a 50 hp boost for a while (9330 tractor), but for what we were pulling it just caused more fuel to be burned, so I set it back to stock hp. After the dealer fixed my injectors I think they put the ECU back to factory and so all last year we ran without the tune installed. This spring I will reinstall the tune.
The 9330 has been a good machine for us, although it's not nearly as comfortable as our 9220. It's quite a bit louder than the old 12.5 L engine, and has always had a very annoying turbo whistle. However it has great torque at 1600-1800 rpm.
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Post by northernfarmer on Jan 20, 2021 16:30:57 GMT -6
Torriem, how many hours were on your 9330 when the injectors were replaced ? , also about how many hours between oil changes and what brand filter do you use as no doubt it all has a bearing on soot load within the oil.
I've contemplated having a delete done on my 9430 but am leery in case its some hatchet job that blows up the engine and not sure what company is good and also up around this area of Alberta to work on it or fix created issues by having tinkered with the programing. Without a doubt the oil goes black almost instantly, that is not impressive.
Oatking, you may have heard this before about their water pump being a weak point due to ball bearings being able to fall down into the engine if the bearing goes and an updated pump that limits the clearance for objects to fall into the engine. The suggestion by the local dealer was to replace the pump every 2500 hours, if that is really needed that soon I don't know but its a "thing" anyway with this engine and I believe some older series as well ?
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Post by Oatking on Jan 20, 2021 17:38:50 GMT -6
Yes, thats good advice on the water pump, I am having my water pump and delete done at the end of the month. My mechanic said alot of engines sitting over winter can leak antifreeze into the oil case and than on start up you get a bent rod among other damage. He said dont wory about delete damaging engine and in fact delete could add alot of life to the engine.
The same guy did my kenworth semi which has a cummins isx. This is year 3 of delete and oil is looking more clearer like canola oil. He also boosted the hp to 575 on that motor.
Last year i had my water pump changed on my john deere combine and got it changed just in time. The pump was just starting to leak but the drain hole was plugged from rust and dust so if it was not done than you would never know how bad it was until it was too late.
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Post by northernfarmer on Jan 20, 2021 17:58:42 GMT -6
Oatking, who is the designer of the delete kit you are going to use on your JD and is it one that will boost the engine. Also is there some permanent system bolted on as in blank off plates etc or does that not apply to the 13.5 liter. A mechanic I use for various JD equipment and used to work for JD years back isn't one of those that is a fan of deletes and boosting simply because the few engines from customers that they themselves did put on some magic box etc cooked their engines. This isn't referring to the 13.5 liter but other engines and so with him seeing the after effects he doesn't feel comfortable sticking his neck on the line and getting into programming as he is so busy with everything else and is gun shy about the whole thing. So its items like that talking into my ear that hold me back from doing anything because I haven't had other farmers around that I know who have had deletes put on similar engines to get any feedback.
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Post by torriem on Jan 20, 2021 18:45:35 GMT -6
Pretty sure it was about 3000 hours when it started having injector problems. We change the engine oil filter every year with Deere filters, and we use Plus 50II 15W40 engine oil. Hours are never that high. Maybe 250-300 hours per year. The recommended oil change interval is 600 hours or annually.
Good reminder on the water pump. I am pretty sure the design of the pump is improved over the original 12.5l engine's pump. I don't think it will drop bearings into the gear train anymore.
My tune was from Ekotuning.
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Post by Oatking on Jan 20, 2021 21:36:06 GMT -6
I will get you the name in a few days. Its a company in British Colombia. Its a program software plus i am getting the emission stuff taken off. I will give more details soon. Yeah I am not a fan of boosting any horse power with the delete software. 510 hp is enough for my work load and any more would inflate my fuel bill. Thanks i will look up ekotuning for comparison. the price of a delete doesnt raise my eyebrow. What did raise my eyebrow was the cost of a used 13.5 l out of the states my mechanic put in a neighbours tractor. 45 000 U.S plus labor. ouch!
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Post by torriem on Jan 20, 2021 22:24:33 GMT -6
Ekotuning delete on the 13.5L is about $2k (EDIT: a bit more than $3k) if I recall correctly. No need to physically remove anything because if the valve stays shut there's no EGR happening.
It's interesting how versatile the 13.5L engine is. Mine is only about 375 hp. So except for issues of cooling and maybe axle size and driveline components, I could probably turn it up to 510. I think I ended up with three programs. No boost, 50 hp boost, and 100 hp boost. I've never tried the 100 hp boost. That would take my 9330 to around 475 hp.
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Post by northernfarmer on Jan 21, 2021 8:38:04 GMT -6
The tuning from Ekotuning, is that software put on a programmer you physically own or how does that work, and what is the general theme of various tuning companies as like you mentioned the dealer deleted the tune and put it back to stock so your starting all over again. I believe a comment by a neighbour who has a buddy who doesn't live in the area but did some tuning on various JD engines and doesn't want the dealer touching his equipment out of fear of having the programming messed up.
For sure I'll take the contact information from you for the Ekotuning and can see if there happens to be someone in the area. I know on the other forum the company was advertising and they just disappeared so not sure what happened there.
Any idea if the tuning causes the engine to run better ( changing the timing etc that was done for emissions reasons ) even if the fuel rate isn't increased or for that matter uses less fuel. I know lots of claims were made for some pickups but I think in that case some of it had to do with the regen system pouring fuel into the exhaust but some hefty mileage claims used to be made by tuning companies.
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Post by torriem on Jan 21, 2021 9:40:32 GMT -6
Either the Ekotuning dealer comes out and puts it on your tractor with his own programmer or he can sell you a programmer to do it yourself. I chose to buy the programmer so I could switch between the boost profiles, and of course to re-do the tune when the dealership wipes it. Seems like John Deere has dealers reflash the firmware for all kinds of engine problems. Having the programmer to do it myself makes that not so much of an issue.
I would worry a bit about physically removing the EGR components from the engine. If a dealer ever re-flashes the ECU, I am sure it would cause a lot of problems when all the extra hardware is actually missing.
The tuning process itself involves using a laptop to load the firmware into the programmer device, and then using that programming device to program the tractor ECU through the diagnostic port. If you're not comfortable with that process, and if your dealer is nearby, I would just get him to do the flash. He can always come out and flash it again in the future for a small fee.
I didn't notice a real change in the engine's sound or even performance. I haven't kept track of fuel closely enough to tell if I'm saving anything. I suspect some savings, yes. EGR typically trades a little extra fuel for less NOx. I wasn't the guy doing the tillage so I don't know if the torque curve was affected or not. The 50 hp boost did noticeably burn more fuel. Since we weren't wanting going any faster or had wider equipment to increase our efficiency, we walked that back. We'll save the boost for some time when we want to pull a high speed disc or something.
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Post by shmiffy on Jan 21, 2021 21:30:12 GMT -6
I had a dodge eco diesel that the ecm crapped out in the city. It was fully deleted. Dealer changed ecm. Had just enough km to make it home in before limp mode kicked in. Got the new ecm retuned and was good to go. I think if you ran for 500 hours or more with the egr shut off I wouldn’t plan on it working . Might be able to clean it up to get it working. I class an egr as a consumable part
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Post by Oatking on Jan 23, 2021 17:40:17 GMT -6
The business name where i am getting the software is called Jerry's Diesel Performance. They are from Fort St John B.C. I am not getting a power boost on the software. The mechanic cuts out the particulate filter and plugs all unused ends. He told me the tractor will appear stock if i decided to sell it. I wish the engineers thought this out more and cared about long term use. the cost for software and labour is 4000. I was told to expect it to take 3 years of oil changes before the oil looks clearer. I wanted to keep this tractor longer term because of the 510 horse power and it has high flow hydraulics and a pto so thought it pays to delete it.
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Post by meskie on Jan 23, 2021 18:05:01 GMT -6
John Deere dealer around here won’t take a tractor on trade that’s been deleted. Even if it appears stock they will update the computer software then your delete file is gone.
If you don’t want to gut your muffler I know where you can get a new one but the guy sells the delete software with it also.
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Post by torriem on Jan 23, 2021 18:47:04 GMT -6
Which models and years included the DPF? My Tier 3 9330 does not have a DPF. Were some of the later 30 series machines Tier 4I?
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