|
Post by SWMan on Mar 3, 2024 16:47:27 GMT -6
After a long run of inflation one has to wonder if the downslide in commodities will spread to a deflationary event in other asset classes like equipment and real estate. There is lots of talk about how bad the real economy is, talk to anyone involved in the trucking industry. Where a couple of years ago you couldn't buy recreational items or vehicles, now the lots are full. Even without without further interest rate increases this might be a hard landing in many sectors. Farmers have profited big time from inflation, it's entirely likely that many are heavily exposed to a serious deflationary event. Took a good amount of searching to find a long-term inflation chart, especially one that includes the last few years. General theme of this one is basically no major deflation in the last almost 100 years! Maybe the people that pull the levers will just inflate through this again, or maybe this time it's different?
|
|
|
Deflation
Mar 3, 2024 17:04:39 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by meskie on Mar 3, 2024 17:04:39 GMT -6
Used equipment prices seem to be coming down some. It’s also staying on the lots a lot longer than it has been the last couple of years. Vehicle lots also seem to be filling up now with incentives to buy so they must not be moving very well either.
|
|
|
Deflation
Mar 3, 2024 17:52:15 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by slipclutch on Mar 3, 2024 17:52:15 GMT -6
This chart is for the USA. I remember mid seventies to 79 the land went from 300$ acre to 1400$ then the eighties hit. High interest came along. By 1986 87. It fell to 800-850$ acre it stayed there till 2007. Then every real estate known to man went to the moon. So I think real estate will come down but not to the 850$ level but could come down by 20-30% and stay there for the next maybe 30 years. It’s going to take awhile to catch up to pay some debt before the next boom.
|
|
|
Deflation
Mar 3, 2024 19:56:37 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by cptusa on Mar 3, 2024 19:56:37 GMT -6
I would think inflation and cost of living would push a lot of recreational vehicles, especially the high end rangers and such, to the market place.
|
|
tommo780
Junior Member
Posts: 61 Likes: 61
|
Post by tommo780 on Mar 3, 2024 22:15:29 GMT -6
I don't doubt that at some point there will be a liquidity/credit "event" that will come from treasury market dysfunction, and as with 2020 following the repo spike in 2019, they will print so fast it'll make our heads spin the next time they do it and at that point it should start to become obvious to even the most braindead sheep that fiat is not what you want to be holding, real things are, hence no real long term deflation. Also once that happens it's also the velocity of money that matters, once the velocity picks up it doesn't matter what interest rates are you can't stop an avalanche. Think Argentina/Venezuela, interest rates are in the 90's, doesn't make a shits bit of difference as everyone just dumps their pesos for real things as fast as they can. Never in history has a fiat currency disappeared because of deflation. fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2V
|
|
|
Post by kenmb on Mar 5, 2024 9:41:06 GMT -6
The central banks still have all these other tools in their tool box to keep things going much like the last 15 years. And those tools include debt, debt, debt, debt, debt, more debt and when they run out of all those tools they can still go to their very last option which is debt. While I do think we will see some deflation simply because people in debt need to pay it back, that by itself slows down currency circulation because currency goes to debt payment instead of item purchases, we still don't know when the central banks will go into their tool box once again and pull out another of their many tools. But let's take a wild guess and say the next tool taken out is debt, that would lead to some more currency chasing the same assets so inflation. I suspect what gets different each time is fewer assets get chased, I mean more premium assets get chased. Not so much RVs and boats, but perhaps land and houses. More so stagflation where parts of economy contract (deflation) but major assets still inflate. Hard to say. This chart is undeniable. It is a debt based system which means debt keeps expanding. The fine detail is not everyone can keep adding debt. The peasants can't, but others in the rigged game can. And that is when things get really crazy.
|
|
|
Post by kevlar on Mar 6, 2024 9:47:11 GMT -6
Big surge in the price of gold and to a lesser extent silver. Makes me think people are stocking up expecting something to happen, gold was up around 100 an ounce in the last day, 200 in the last week or so. To buy it most places are a little over $3000 an ounce. Wish I had a truck load of it!!
When you stop and think about it, money is actually a depreciating asset, no different than a vehicle. I bet many people if given the choice between $1000 dollars cash or the equivalent amount of gold, would likely choose the cash, not knowing that as soon as they get it it’s actually losing value.
|
|
|
Deflation
Mar 6, 2024 11:41:51 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by Oatking on Mar 6, 2024 11:41:51 GMT -6
Oh for sure they would ! We have all on here got a head knowing cash is not king ! Just look at the crazy costs of vehicles and side by sides now a days ! I don’t think 45 k gets you a North Star ranger loaded up! Trucks north of 100 k. One would think the end to that pricing is coming as lots fill up now! Amazing thing is people just lease everything so the insanity rolls on!
|
|
|
Post by kenmb on Mar 6, 2024 12:29:49 GMT -6
Yes, currency is a depreciating entity, that is what that debt chart I posted is saying. Of course no "news" or government body will actually say this. But that is conspiracy talk I suppose. More debt means more currency created which means existing currency is devalued. So that is the tricky part of speculating on whether we see deflation or inflation. Debt will kepp being added but it will be governments and corporations doing it, these entities are immune to interest and debt obligations. Yeah, some will say corporations are capitalist and will fail if their debt goes to high except you never actually see that happening in the mega corporations - their debt keeps going higher while their shares also increase because financialization allows this. And we can also see government step in and save those chosen companies when really needed. So those big corporations aren't actually capitalist.
However the average schmuck can't keep expanding debt. And that is deflationary. So I see possibilities for conflict. Perhaps some will call it the system failing. Or better yet - capitalism failing. Of course, again, no one in the government or media can figure out that fixing interest rates is actually not capitalism. But I digress.
I do think there is some good news in what Powell is saying. Basically telling the "markets" who are expecting rate cuts any month now to go pound sand. Who comes up with this idea rate cuts are a given fact? Sure, 10% debt is excessive but 7 or 8% should be considered normal. Central bank at 5% and lending banks putting on 1.5 to 2% seems reasonable. Why do the "markets" say we need rate cuts?
No "news" on why gold suddenly moved. Could it be the squirrel was set loose again in the form of Bitcoin ETF to distract people so another adjustment can be made in metals? A bitcoin ETF in itself is a curious thing, once again government says bitcoin is bad and dangerous to people and government but then goes ahead and says expanding the casino playing with bitcoin via ETFs is perfectly fine.
Could be an interesting 6 months with the US election. Don't know. No recommendations from me. I am waiting out grain markets to see what occurs in the May and June time frame. We could see prices driven lower yet by the "funds" but if some of these funds actually trade based on generating profits then one could also say a pivot from other sectors into commodities is just as possible. I wonder who is the big entities buying gold. Maybe the "funds".
|
|
|
Post by SWMan on Mar 7, 2024 21:06:39 GMT -6
The central banks still have all these other tools in their tool box to keep things going much like the last 15 years. And those tools include debt, debt, debt, debt, debt, more debt and when they run out of all those tools they can still go to their very last option which is debt. While I do think we will see some deflation simply because people in debt need to pay it back, that by itself slows down currency circulation because currency goes to debt payment instead of item purchases, we still don't know when the central banks will go into their tool box once again and pull out another of their many tools. But let's take a wild guess and say the next tool taken out is debt, that would lead to some more currency chasing the same assets so inflation. I suspect what gets different each time is fewer assets get chased, I mean more premium assets get chased. Not so much RVs and boats, but perhaps land and houses. More so stagflation where parts of economy contract (deflation) but major assets still inflate. Hard to say. This chart is undeniable. It is a debt based system which means debt keeps expanding. The fine detail is not everyone can keep adding debt. The peasants can't, but others in the rigged game can. And that is when things get really crazy.
Ken I can't think of a single chart that went parabolic like that and just kept going, something has to give here at some point. It's almost like they want to blow the system up... O_o
|
|
|
Post by kenmb on Mar 8, 2024 8:50:32 GMT -6
I beleive the polite term is "unsustainable".
The not-so-polite discussion then revolves around how something that is unsustainable then comes to an end.
I can't come to a conclusion whether we have inflation or deflation. Best I can come up with is having both, and I suppose that is where the word stagflatiion is derived from. As my last post says, some entities can expand debt endlessly and some can't so some create inflation and others create deflation and so whether a guy sees inflation or deflation will depend on what area of life a guy looks at.
I suppose I could conclude that the stock markets are following the debt graph. Meaning some of the same companies I see as being able to expand debt endlessly are also the ones with the ever increasing stock valuations and share prices.
It all seems simple enough. Pile your savings into bitcoin and the top performing stocks. The stocks are easy enough to pick out. Ut every time I think about doing such a thing, the word "unsustainable" pops into my head.
|
|
|
Post by kevlar on Mar 8, 2024 10:28:23 GMT -6
We’re all good, Biden said so last night in his speech. It’s the greedy snack food companies putting less food in the same size bag that’s causing all the problems. One good thing about that man, he makes me feel like a genius!
|
|
|
Post by kenmb on Mar 12, 2024 17:14:11 GMT -6
The government can inflate its way out of debt. Ummm, no they can't. That only has a possible chance for any entity if it cuts its spending and so stops adding debt. No government is going to cut spending to do that. So we need to talk about this fact and the reality that brings. The real question is who is first to understand this reality.
Land can very well keep going higher as an answer to the reality. The currency will soon become worthless so holding assets is one answer. Problem is how you keep your wealth out of the governments reach, land isn't mobile. Depends how totalitarian the governments become. Do they ignore the reality and start ramping taxes on land to fix their budgets? Do they increase capital gains or other transaction taxes to dissuade sale of land by the smart people who saw the reality coming and tried to escape it to some extent. As a side note, you should understand this is what capital gains tax really does - land and other assets are a way to evade the depreciation of the dollar that is built into the fiat currency scam and so the mechanisms are put in place to penalize the people who have sheltered themselves from this theft - aka capital gains tax. It's not coincidence. It's not "free money" for the government, it is a mechanism to prevent the peasants from escaping the system. Once again, people should consider what freedom would really look like if we had true freedom from the fiat currency system.
Gold and silver still looks good but the paper futures trading scam puts a damper on that too. Once again, your freedom does not really exist there. But it is a means to own assets that are easily hidden from government and not taxable like land ownership. Of course government can put new controls on precious metals ownership and transactions if more people sought the protection. Government is not there to grant freedom, it's the opposite, and taxation is a great tool for supressing your freedom. Because wealth is freedom.
content://org.mozilla.firefox.feature.downloads.fileprovider/mediaShareCache/1954827122.jpg
content://org.mozilla.firefox.feature.downloads.fileprovider/mediaShareCache/435218676.png
The budget deficit will growth another $16 TRILLION over next 10 years. Thats *with* the proposed massive tax hikes.
Without them the deficit will grow $19 trillion.
That's why you will hear the "deficit is being reduced by $3 trillion" over the decade.
No family budget or business could exist with this kind of math.
Of course, in the long run, neither can the US... and since neither party will ever cut the spending which everyone by now is so addicted to, the best anyone can do is start planning for the endgame.
|
|
|
Post by kenmb on Mar 12, 2024 17:18:31 GMT -6
Images didn't load
Note that the budget is based on adding around $3T of new taxes. Pay attention to taxes on things people are doing to protect themselves from currency debasement.
Currency destruction is inflation in a nut shell. More taxes, higher prices from currency destruction is also deflationary.
And in all this I can read daily how "expert" and "markets" are expecting central banks to cut interest rates any day. Inflation is still high, the economy is "booming", stock market on a rip, and we are told to expect interest rate cuts. This doesn't add up because the system is totally screwed, which is because the system is built that way. Are we partying like it's 1929? Maybe not. It may be worse then 1929 yet because at some point a greater part of the population will actually understand their reality. If they aren't too distracted by diversity, gender equality, racism, 23 genders, corruption in government, war and instead actually understand how their world works.
|
|
|
Deflation
Mar 12, 2024 18:22:31 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by Oatking on Mar 12, 2024 18:22:31 GMT -6
There is an article in the cooperator just recently that said Manitoba land prices increased double digits again at 11 per cent . The author made it sound like that was a huge disappointment ! It’s true other years saw bigger gains , but it appears 6/7 percent increase is still triggering land sales! As a farmer getting close to the finish line , I don’t mind seeing this increase. I know for the health of the future it will have to stabilize unless we see 25 dollar canola the norm! It could very well happen with inflation . At least land is increasing annually higher than the interest rate hikes! 15 years ago we thought 14-16 dollar canola was out of this world! Now we know different . We know not to listen to any expert !!!
|
|