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Post by kevlar on Jan 10, 2023 10:19:51 GMT -6
The trailer we picked up has the remote openers but the guy before just draped the wires over top of crank handles. I would like to tidy it up and put proper clamps to hold it. This might be a stupid question, but if I drill a few holes through the angle iron pieces they have welded around the bottom of the hopper, it wouldn’t weaken it would it?
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Post by meskie on Jan 10, 2023 11:19:19 GMT -6
That’s how we did ours and I’ve seen the dealer installed ones done the same way. You really only need a 1/4” hole or smaller.
We have some split loom on ours and put some rubber hose over top of the wires on the wires that are open to gravel from the tires to keep the gravel from wrecking it also. So far it seems to be holding up.
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Post by northernfarmer on Jan 10, 2023 11:36:29 GMT -6
Some random thoughts on wire cord routing
So I gather this is a steel open end trailer and with aluminum slope sheets ( not an aluminum trailer ). I just wanted to be clear in my head that its actually steel angle iron and not aluminum. Also any of these holes you wanted to drill, they would not go through a portion of the steel angle that you would be drilling through the riveted on aluminum sheeting ?. The reason I ask all this is to make sure you are not placing steel against aluminum in the form of a bolt etc to cause galvanic corrosion. Lets say for example that it was an aluminum angle structure, I would say to use aluminum pop rivets in a case like that and that where the clip steel would be against the aluminum, a plastic washer be placed under the clip before it was riveted on so the steel clip would not be touching the aluminum.
As to drilling holes through a steel structure, I would think a lot of that has to do with how stressed the structure is and how large the hole is relative to the area of steel and that the hole is not placed too close to the edge where it could rust or crack out leading to a very weak support. Self tapping screws could be used although with thicker metal one may have to upsize a predrilled hole slightly so the screw doesn't get tight and twist off. Probably the next style hardware would be simple 1/4 bolt hardware and of course 1/4 at least sized hole unless one was messing with machine screws and nuts to have a smaller hole.
Wire holder clip style, was something like this your thought ?
Then there is this system, never tried to use or source what is pictured and if its any good or frustration with breaking plastic in cold weather and the tie straps breaking but thought I would throw out the idea in case there was a location where using this system worked better then drilling any holes or worried about the structure.
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Post by hardrockacres on Jan 10, 2023 12:05:52 GMT -6
Or rather than pop rivits/plastic washers you can use stainless steel bolts/washers
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Post by meskie on Jan 10, 2023 12:21:15 GMT -6
As long as you stay away from the corners and try to get as close to centre of the angle iron as possible you should be fine.
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Post by northernfarmer on Jan 10, 2023 13:21:59 GMT -6
Or rather than pop rivits/plastic washers you can use stainless steel bolts/washers Not touching aluminum or another words without a barrier, stainless steel is even worse than plain carbon steel on the compatibility scale when it comes to aluminum. I realize some aluminum trailers will use a grade of stainless steel bolt to fasten on the dollies to the aluminum frame, I don't know if they use a special washer material under the head of the bolt, somehow they have it calculated out that it will work the way they do it but otherwise steel of any type and any area of it directly against aluminum and then add moisture and salt and calcium chloride and boy is that a recipe for aluminum to turn to white dust. |
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Post by kevlar on Jan 10, 2023 15:20:21 GMT -6
It’s all just steel. Hopefully it’s fine, it’s done now anyway!
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Post by hardrockacres on Jan 11, 2023 7:22:29 GMT -6
If you look at all fuel trucks, (tandem and tri axle), all fasteners are stainless, including washer and nuts. Look at some that are over 30 years old...no corrosion.
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Post by northernfarmer on Jan 11, 2023 9:32:12 GMT -6
The stainless steel fastener is fine, its the aluminum that is the problem and why for example on open end steel trailers with aluminum slopes, they put a tape type barrier along with the paint type coatings between the aluminum sheet and the steel structure the sheet is fastened to. Once that barrier is compromised the aluminum just disintegrates. If there was no moisture, no salt or calcium chloride etc then the dissimilar metals would play much nicer together. That is why ships, personal sailing boats etc have to be made out of certain materials and how they are fastened together so that they don't corrode, its a humid salty environment ... vs southern Arizona where its only the paint and anything rubber that falls off and the various metals just sit there like time has stopped.
Another example is one of my Petes with a step into the cab which is also a tool box ( its a battery compartment on the drivers side ) and the original owner had done a repair to the latch catch that the covers latch hook would hook into. They used a piece of steel and it laid along the bottom of the aluminum tool box compartment. A few years after we bought it I discovered that the tool box aluminum sheeting had completely disintegrated where the piece of steel sat, there was nothing left of that whole area of aluminum and so I took the whole tool box/storage box off and cut out the whole floor and took the box to a shop that specializes in cutting and forming steels and aluminum and they made a new floor ( and thicker while I was at it ) and they aluminum welded that in place. Was not a cheap repair since I don't have the equipment to weld aluminum but there it was. Then I made up a new steel latch plate only I cut out plastic from an oil jug to place as a spacer/separator of the two dissimilar metals and its been good ever since. Moisture gets into those boxes unfortunately and same with a bit of road salt etc and then it tends to stay moist and the original latch catch had caused a small area of the box floor to aluminum corrode because there was no barrier from the factory on the box latch catch and whoever repaired it to bridge that corroded hole just created a far worse problem by what they did, that was the irony.
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Post by garyfunk on Jan 11, 2023 11:11:16 GMT -6
This thread just educated me a little. I was going to do a little repair and reinforcement on an aluminum snowmobile ramp with mild steel riveted to the aluminum. After reading this conversation and a bit of research it looks like running tape between the pieces should keep it from corroding. The rivet might still corrode but it'll be easy enough to replace if that happens.
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Post by northernfarmer on Jan 11, 2023 11:30:16 GMT -6
Gary, while I can't make a claim for Tuck tape as I don't know for sure if it would stay intact in a cold environment while being flexed ( you know how some plastics can take cold while others can not ), Tuck tape is very easy to work with vs what I did with an oil jug that has a shape to it so cutting out a part of one that is not deformed. There may be some other type of tape better but that concept of a tape to create that barrier is really easy to accomplish.
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Post by hardrockacres on Jan 11, 2023 12:48:05 GMT -6
I guess Advance Engineering and Innocar don't know what they are doing then, as the mount hardware for their bulk tanks are all SS.
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Post by meskie on Jan 11, 2023 13:14:54 GMT -6
Had a couple rivets pop out of my Wilson trailer on the slope steps and they told me to just use stainless hardware to bolt back in.
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Post by northernfarmer on Jan 11, 2023 14:08:05 GMT -6
Its about the amount of area that the bolt touches and what moisture etc gets between them that causes the issues. Here's an example, a steel inner wheel and an aluminum outer wheel on a trailer, if there is no "wheel saver" plastic spacer between them and the steel wheel has seen better days and the paint where the aluminum rim is against the steel wheel and those two wheels have sat for quite some time together like that and on crappy winter roads, that can be a real mess. Same with aluminum wheels against the steel brake drum if on the crap spread winter roads. That is why up here you will often see those wheel savers put in if they were not already installed at the factory. Go down into the southern states and I get the impression those are not nearly as common as they don't deal with the salt and calcium that we have to contend with. The lug nut is steel against an aluminum wheel but that never seems to be an issue so I can only guess that the area is not large enough plus the fact that its so tightly wedged onto one another that contaminants have a hard time to get between them.
Not that its exactly the same situation but with a steel hull of a ship, they bond on what I think are zinc plates all over it and so the salt water attacks the plates and leaves the steel hull alone. When steel and aluminum are placed together so there is an area touching and then a corrosive element is introduced, the aluminum becomes the sacrificial material that falls to pieces while the steel is minimally affected. Just a good paint between the two metals will act as a barrier or a petroleum product or even Fluid Film.
Its said that if there is a large area of aluminum with a small area of steel touching it, it can often withstand that. Its when there is a large area of steel and a small area of aluminum such as an aluminum pop rivet for example, that pop rivet will fail as it will turn to dust and of course environmental conditions factoring greatly on how long it takes for that to corrode ( galvanic corrosion )
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