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Post by kenmb on Jul 21, 2022 15:54:23 GMT -6
Brought home a JD4895 swather with 30ft HB so need to get familiar with it. I never been around these roto shear dividers so what does a guy do for swathing cereals? Their website mentions a plastic cover for such work which I don't mind ordering up. Is that the right way to go or do guys do something different.
Also, both motors on the shears are leaking oil. As in a puddle on the ground without even running the header since getting it home. Is bad seals a common problem? If it is would a guy just put new motors on rather than mess around resealing something that may be a problem child.
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Post by torriem on Jul 21, 2022 19:12:19 GMT -6
I remove my rotor sheers when not cutting canola, which is easy to do on my MacDons. But RotorSheer does have a shield that can bolt on to cover the knives and act as a divider, and it does work fairly well. You can see it on page 3 of this PDF: freeformplastics.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Roto-Shear-Manual-Complete-2018-19_FFP_R2_LowRes.pdfEDIT: Looks like I can add images.  As for the motors leaking oil, it doesn't look very hard to remove the rotor thing from the motor shaft, and then pull the motor off. Replacing the seal around the shaft is pretty simple usually. That's usually all that is leaking. Good reminder for me to check into it as on of ours is leaking too I think. Edit: all the motors I have are bmph-n-50-h4-k-s-s07s, and there are seal kits available for them. I've never been into one of them before, but I don't expect it to be too difficult. The danger is if the motor shaft is worn so the seal won't seal. Then you'd need to replace the motor. |
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Post by kenmb on Jul 21, 2022 22:27:27 GMT -6
I will look at them closer about removing but I suspect I will need to get crop dividers to install in their place so would likely leave them on and get the roto shear cover.
I don't mind resealing the motors, but when I see both leaking I wonder if it is more than just a seal issue and more related to wear. I suppose I could put in the seal kits and if that doesn't stop the leakage then I know what the next step is.
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Post by Beerwiser on Jul 22, 2022 0:10:02 GMT -6
As for the motors leaking oil, it doesn't look very hard to remove the rotor thing from the motor shaft, and then pull the motor off. Replacing the seal around the shaft is pretty simple usually. That's usually all that is leaking. Good reminder for me to check into it as on of ours is leaking too I think. Edit: all the motors I have are bmph-n-50-h4-k-s-s07s, and there are seal kits available for them. I've never been into one of them before, but I don't expect it to be too difficult. The danger is if the motor shaft is worn so the seal won't seal. Then you'd need to replace the motor. Ha, famous last words.  Did three of them for various neighbors, one was easy, the other two were a PITA. I think the lack of hydraulic capacity/cooling makes it a pain to pull the hub off shaft. |
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Post by skfarmboy on Jul 22, 2022 8:41:37 GMT -6
I have a couple of Roto Shears off a Honey Bee Header that I no longer use. They also have the bolt on divider. They are for sale. PM your phone number if you are interested.
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Post by kenmb on Jul 22, 2022 18:39:41 GMT -6
Sent you pm Skfarmboy.
My motors are char-Lynn Eaton 101-1512-009. Regina has seal kits in stock for $91 so I pulled a motor off and took flange off to see the shaft. A little bit of wear, I measure it 0.003" smaller so new seals should be able to still work fine. The hub gave me a little trouble but not too bad. Can get a crossover motor for $540. The Eaton is late Oct delivery and $790 from a hydraulic shop.
So what I did learn is when I go and move the swather away from shop door after taking off hydraulic motor, I can make one hell of a mess. I never suspected it would be a problem - so I am in cab, rev engine up to lift header, and look over to see a gyser of oil shooting 12 ft in the air (I had the hoses taped up and held standing vertically along the header) and onto the roof of my lean-to. Coated the door and wall with oil and had gallons of oil coming out the eaves trough downspout. What a frickin mess. Yes, header was off. I am guessing the pump is still turning and pumping oil because there is no resistance in the circuit with this open circuit. I need to look into it a little more.
Probably need 10 gallons of oil now. The oil was green and made a kind of floating sludge when washing it off the cement. Very different then what other oils do when using water on them. Is the JD hygard like that? I remember it being gold.
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Post by Oatking on Jul 22, 2022 20:49:47 GMT -6
Ha ha HAaaa , ahh the dreaded WATCH IN AWE as you deplete your hydraulic tank while failing to take your finger off the hydraulic lever!! Ive done that too. Thanks for the laugh Ken! Oil messes are annoying. I Should start a thread on best clean up practices. he he he!
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Post by torriem on Jul 23, 2022 7:27:31 GMT -6
Wow, motor seal kits are way expensive for what they are! Probably $2 worth of o-rings and seals. Quite a racket. For Char-Lynn motors, you don't normally need a full seal kit. Just the base plate o-ring and the shaft seal. My local hydraulics shop had them for just a couple of dollars.
Oh yes the joys of modern, digitally-controlled hydraulics. I would have made the same mistake. Instead of good old manual spool valves on the pressure side like we used to do things, often everything is pressured and the solenoid valves control the other end of the circuit. On my MacDon swather, oil pressure goes to nearly all the header functions all the time by default, and if all the cooperating solenoids don't move at exactly the same time, something like raising the reel or moving the reel fore and aft will cause the main lift to bump up. This is all done to simplify the electronic logic and reduce the use of more expensive and complicated solenoid valves.
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Post by kenmb on Jul 23, 2022 7:49:45 GMT -6
I suppose I could pop the shaft seal out and take it into the city with me. Maybe they are easy to get a hold of, I figure those things must have so many specific dimensions for so many applications that they are the key item of the kit.
Downloaded a service manual and reading last night I see the header drive uses a hydrostatic pump. The forward and reverse solenoids therefore move the plate one direction or the other to switch flow. I suppose it always generates some pressure/flow in neutral for lubrication and cooling, or something to do with how the charge system works that pumps oil out if there is no resistance because of open line. Lesson learned anyway. I can disconnect the two hoses feeding to the header and thus shut off flow from pump if I need to move it.
I am guessing the green oil is JD Bio Hygard. That would explain what I am seeing with washing it off with water. Will check with the dealer and see what they know.
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Post by torriem on Jul 23, 2022 12:36:33 GMT -6
Oh right I'm sure there's always standby or charge pressure.
You're correct about the color of hygard oil normally. The only time I've ever seen green oil is on a brand new John Deere machine in the engine, which is green to remind you to change it after a break-in period. Not sure about hydraulic oil. But I suspect the hydraulic oil has never been changed on that swather. Wouldn't be a dumb thing to change it.
1" shaft size is very common. The local shop that carries this sort of thing told me one seal type fits a variety of similar motors from Char-Lynn. There are different types of seals available which will work. The last Char-Lynn motor I changed seals on a week ago had a two-piece seal, a brass ring and then a lipped seal. I replaced it with a one-piece seal that was the same width as both the old seal and the brass ring combined. The shop tells me they have good luck with that seal. I can call them monday to find out what seal that is.
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iamwill
Full Member
Posts: 242
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Post by iamwill on Jul 23, 2022 16:55:07 GMT -6
Coop trans hydraulic fluid used to be green, don't know if it still is.
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Post by kenmb on Jul 24, 2022 9:11:03 GMT -6
The inside cover seal I took out had that seperate brass ring also which I mangled in the process. So will take them into the shop and see what they can do. Never tried this route before. I have no need to reseal the entire motor, just the shaft seals so would be nice to get the seals just for that area.
My local JD parts guy says he heard of the Bio oil but has never seen it/sold it. I dipped the reservoir and its about half full so yes, going to empty it out and put Hygard in so I know what I got. That green stuff is quite slippery though, I suspect it would be good oil to use but if it is rare and expensive then I will move on. In the name of environmentally friendly, getting off hydrocarbons, saving the planet, etc no one can figure out yet how to replace expensive petroleum products with cheap vegetable oils like the Bio oil. Ok, apparently they have, they just can't figure out how to take an affordable product and sell it so its affordable. Vegetable oil have been in grocery stores for some time now.
Yes, there is a possibility it is another brand of oil but you would have to see how it floated up and gelled together as I was washing it off the cement and water was creating pools. I suspect it is a vegetable based oil I have.
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Post by torriem on Jul 25, 2022 13:21:03 GMT -6
I should have told you to remove the steel ring that's pressed into the base plate. Usually can remove it with plumbers pliers. Give it a twist. Then the seals can be removed and installed extremely easily. I forgot about that and did the same thing on the motor I worked on recently too. The replacement seal did not require the brass ring. I just used a shaft seal and a new o-ring for the base plate. That's all that's required. I'll try to find my spare seal and take a picture of it for you, and see if any numbers are on it.
Char-Lynn are nice motors to work with as far as seals go. Way better than the reel drive motor on MacDon headers. There are seal kits for them, but unlike Char-lynn where the ring is just pressed in finger tight, these motors have a ring that was pressed in with a press, capturing the seal. Dealer tried everything and could not remove this ring. I even talked to a hydraulic shop and they couldn't do it either. So had to throw away the motor and just buy a new one.
Always a good idea to replace the oils on a new-to-you machine. Just bought a M155 last winter and replaced oil in all the gearboxes, changed the hydraulic oil, and of course engine oil.
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Post by torriem on Jul 25, 2022 13:33:40 GMT -6
This is what the motor I worked on looks like:  The ring you can remove to access the seals is #7 in the diagram. It's a bearing race for the thrust bearing actually. It just sits in the base plate on top of the seal but is easily removed. The wider seal replaced 4 and 5. 6 is the o-ring that seals the body to the base plate. |
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Post by kenmb on Jul 27, 2022 7:59:04 GMT -6
I did seal the one motor so far. The hydraulic shop I went to said I couldn't get just the shaft seals from them so bought the two seal kits and used items 3, 4, 5 and 6. The rest go into my box of assorted o-rings to never see daylight again. Item #7 basically fell off while handling the motor. If shaft seals leak again then it will be new motors installed to correct. Did drain the hydraulic reservoir and put Hy Gard in it.
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Did three of them for various neighbors, one was easy, the other two were a PITA. I think the lack of hydraulic capacity/cooling makes it a pain to pull the hub off shaft.
