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Post by kevlar on Jun 16, 2022 7:05:54 GMT -6
The time has come to deal with my rusty old grain trailer. It’s a Cancade tri-axle three hopper. Bought it new and it began rusting shortly after but of course they wouldn’t cover it under warranty. Had to fix a couple holes in it this spring. I would like to buy new but the prices, like everything, are ridiculous. Have any of you rebuilt trailers and painted them before? Were you happy with going that route? The worst thing now is that my trailer is basically worthless as it is. Being a farm trailer all its life it doesn’t have a huge pile of miles on it. Have a welder coming to look at it and give me an estimate. I think they are one of those things that as soon as you make the last payment on it you should be trading them off.
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Post by meskie on Jun 16, 2022 7:30:47 GMT -6
Anybody I know that has re done a trailer has wished they sold it and bought a different one. Unless your doing the work yourself it gets time consuming to do.
We had a cancade trailer that we redid the front slope on and used it for a few more years but it was gonna need a lot more. And the more you looked the worse it was. Sold it at auction for $5500 and we were happy with that.
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Post by OptimallyDismal on Jun 16, 2022 8:45:33 GMT -6
I had a lead sled (load king) "A" train lead that got very rusty so I replaced the front and back panels, as well as the side panels where the slope panels attached, basically anywhere there were overlapped pieces, I also had to replace the slide frame due to extreme rust jacking that seized the slide from moving. I then got it sand blasted and primed, where more rust problems were revealed, I got them to epoxy the inside and I painted the outside.
I was in Cancade one day when they were in the early stages of their trailers just after doing this rebuild on my trailer. I looked at the way they were doing it and they were very similar to the lead sled I had, so I asked why they had so many places where they were sandwiching steel components that would allow salt spray and dust to accumulate and then rust through, old Mr Cancade was not very happy that I was questioning his design, but I told him that I had just fixed the same issues his trailers would have in the not so distant future unless they either got rid of the overlap or completely welded all the seams so they were sealed.
Next thing on mine was the 2X4 tubing of the outside structure frame rusted out from water and dust accumulation so it couldn't be safetied.
At this point I bought a Timpte and sold the lead sled and I think Archbutt did the repairs for him, which apparently cost way more than they thought.
I liked the short trailer, but the ribbed sides made it a hard pull. The Timpte is a way easier pull and so far I have had no major structural problems, which being aluminum is a big concern.
I have fond memories of that old trailer leaving the yard on someone else's truck and seeing it disappear down the road forever, it was an ongoing expense it's whole life and never came close to paying it's way and it sold for cheap, I could sell my Timpte today for more than I paid for it! At the time I was young and I rented a mig welder from a guy and the bill for that could have bought a mig welder for me, so another lesson learned the hard way.
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Post by northernfarmer on Jun 16, 2022 9:52:04 GMT -6
Kevlar, you called the trailer old but haven't three hopper trailers only been out for so many years, another words what year is that trailer. What area is rusting or is it a general rusting of panels and frame ( possibly inside the fame if its tube and you can't see it ). It seems the only way to keep a steel trailer looking relatively good is never having one on a winter road, the same actually goes for an aluminum trailer in various respects as well. Time is not our friend on the farm, commercial haulers can use the crap out of a trailer for a few years and sell it while it still looks relatively ok but farm trailers get used some and the crap gets into the seams and under the paint and the years put the rot into the trailer.
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Post by kevlar on Jun 16, 2022 10:43:37 GMT -6
 its a 2006. Not really old, but newer than most things around here! Was just pressure washing it out now and blew another hole in it 😞. Pretty much needs a complete rebuild, slopes and one side for sure, and rear bumper/ light. Talking with my brother and maybe a tandem trailer might be a better option for now, like the tridem but expensive and hard to find a good used one. Was talking to the welder today, he keeps trying to warn me about what it could end up like when he gets into it, might be a good sign to take my loss now. |
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Post by northernfarmer on Jun 16, 2022 11:41:10 GMT -6
We like to think that what we buy new as a farmer should be in good shape as its not been abused, we know where its been etc but when it comes to grain trailers and sadly this is another classic example that probably some rock chips have started the process and that road crap driven up into the underside seams where you don't know how scary the rust is and time in years with salt/calcium having gotten under the paint and very possibly into the inside of that frame, can turn a mostly resting grain trailer into a rusty mechanically unsound unit. This welder you speak of, if he has not looked at it yet I would suggest he have a close look at it if he is familiar with the issues this frame tends to encounter when the outside looks in this shape and holes starting to poke through the walls. I personally would not suggest you put much into this trailer, if it can be patched to use on the farm if the frame is deemed reasonable yet and not put it on the winter roads again or sell it and realize it probably won't sell for much. Went through this with a steel trailer we had and did not grasp what was happening under the bubbling paint just above the bottom frame tube but that bubbling paint was the warning sign of what was to come. Never had a hole develop through the wall as per grain coming out but it was at the wall where load king puts coupons of steel on the inside of the wall to create the clean slope along the inside ledges so the grain doesn't hang up there and that created dead air pockets and it rusted through the bottom couple of inches of the wall to the outside where those dead air spaces were. We threw it on a sale ( kicked ourselves that we had not sold it two years sooner ) and actually got not a bad dollar out of it and thanked ourselves for getting rid of it. Could it have worked around the farm for a few years after we sold it, yes I expect it would have and probably would have had to have had some patches welded on at some point. So bought a new aluminum trailer at the time and then bought a good used tandem trailer which had not seen too many years of winter use and its never been allowed to be on a winter road since and has held up good ( and the steel tandem is a 2005 model ) . We also don't put fertilizer in either trailer, that fertilizer is not a helpful product either but I realize a lot of farmers use their trailer for seeding and it just is what it is.
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Post by torriem on Jun 16, 2022 13:03:05 GMT -6
In my mind it's only worth rebuilding if you already have a bunch of guys you're paying, who you need to keep busy in the winter. I have a neighbor who has rebuilt several old, rusted out B trains over the last few winters. By the time you're done, it's probably at least $50k in each of them.
We'll probably replace sections of the side panels and slopes in our trailers one of these winters.
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Post by Oatking on Jun 16, 2022 18:28:58 GMT -6
Kevlar, I had my 2000 tandem 36ft load king trailer rebuilt by Bergs in Winkler. It cost 14500 to fix the rusted out spots and repaint, put rock guard on the lower hoppers and etc. I felt the trailer was worth rebuilding as it is air ride and was in good structured shape. I bought it for 20000 so I have 34500 into it now. It looks like new and I get lots of complements on it. It is really 22 years old but who would know it. I am happy with the job and it would cost much much more now to go and buy a 36ft steel closed end air ride trailer. My 32ft load line end dump brand new cost me 34000 last year but this year add at least 10000 to that number. ![]() Kevlar I will get some pics of the trailer. I guess the leasing a new trailer route is possible if you want to go that way. |
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Post by northernfarmer on Jun 16, 2022 20:27:03 GMT -6
Oatking, I am surprised at that price and can only guess that this was a trailer that still had a decent frame, hopper structure, bolster assembly, and the suspension/running gear. If a trailer is to the point where everywhere one turns its tires that are crap, brakes worn out in every way as per the S cams shot, the slacks siezed up, drums worn out, rusting backing plates and pins for the shoes, wheels rusted badly or worn rim edges of aluminum wheels, the suspension bushing points and so on all shot. Then hoppers that have seams rusted and the hopper at the gate is rust jacked, lower frame rails rusting from the inside out, the slopes rotting out on the edges where they meet the steel, bolster plate twisted/warped and so on, crap for a tarp etc, the fenders cracked up, wiring falling apart. There literally is nothing left in a worst case scenario and I have certainly seen trailers with just about everything on borrowed time.
I am reminded about a guy who started up trying to custom haul ( no idea what became of his business ) and he had a well used tandem trailer he had bought and on that last faithful day of his trailer he was hauling a load of seed peas for a customer and his trailer split in half on the highway and hit the road as the rusted frame he probably never realized he had finally failed on the frost heaves and his load was a thin layer on the road and either ditch. Both the load and the trailer were a total loss and I have to wonder if it even had a safety on it as he was hauling commercial after all.
No doubt is very possible to refurbish a unit that has life in the right hands or a do it yourself thing if one has the tools and abilities but at some point its literally the Titanic's boat anchor and one runs away from that as fast as you can.
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Post by kevlar on Jun 16, 2022 21:34:28 GMT -6
Wow, that seems cheap Oatking! I got an estimate last spring for a sandblast and paint on this trailer and was quoted $20,000. Sounded like a pretty high end job with acid bathing the fenders ( I think that’s what it was) and new rims etc.
This trailer has been well maintained and saftied every year. All new air bags last year, a few new brakes this spring, so that part of it is in good condition.
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Post by kevlar on Jun 16, 2022 21:48:45 GMT -6
Something else I’ve been wondering, why is paint not as good as it was years ago? Is it the metal isn’t as good? Poor quality paint or workmanship? We’ve had old trucks and the boxes were in perfect condition. We just put the box off our old tandem onto a newer Mack and the box would be close to 35 years old and has no rust whatsoever except a couple spots that started on the tailgate door where we did some welding 10 years ago. We have a load line box that’s about 10 years old and it’s getting bubbles and rust starting. See so many new trucks with rusting boxes.
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Post by meskie on Jun 16, 2022 22:14:05 GMT -6
Bad prep and cheap paint is generally why paint jobs don’t last.
One company had their super B in to get fixed a few years ago at a local shop and it was close to $60g once it was all said and done. You do that much and the trailer is probably still only worth that or less. They Coulda sold it for whatever you get at auction and been further ahead.
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Post by northernfarmer on Jun 17, 2022 3:45:16 GMT -6
Even on new equipment, trailers etc that have had as meskie pointed out a poor prep, end up with a garbage outcome as initially they look ok and then the problems start showing up with bubbling paint because it was not handled properly with sand blasting off the mill scale and that oil staying on the metal as well as sand blasting and surface rust flashing onto the metal due to the environment the trailer is in prior to the prime and painting process. Then take a used trailer if it has rust pits in the metal, it is impossible to get that rust out on a large scale if its pitted enough and no primer or paint will bond properly and its trapping all those little pockets of rust and sure enough it will begin rusting under the paint, guaranteed. The blast media isn't small enough to get into those tiny little rust pit holes, that is something that is not understood well enough I think as we had a grain box blasted and painted years back and that was pointed out to us from them, the "reality" of what deep pitted metal will do and the outcome that is not the same as what new or not rust pitted metal would give as an end result.
That 2005 trailer, it had few key area's on it that were I feel not prepped right from the factory and so bubbled the paint and so I took a sand blaster and blasted lots on those spots to really eat into the metal well ( far more then a once over sand blast would do ) and then promptly primed and painted those spots and that is 10 years ago and so far those spots have stayed solid but I caught them before they turned into a really deep rust.
Alarm bells went off Kevlar as soon as you said they would acid bath the aluminum fenders, oh sure it strips off the dull stained look and gives the aluminum that white look but is actually physically damaging the aluminum and that raw aluminum with the open pores gets contaminated quickly. Acid bathing aluminum is a quick easy way to clean it up and give the impression something good has been done but its not a good or kind process for aluminum, not at all. Polishing aluminum the proper way is what lets aluminum last but its so labour intensive and so the easy out is to throw acid at it.
I know I may be coming off rather harsh or negative as to the idea of painting a deep rusted trailer but for good reason, just like this welder that is warning you about getting into repairs of a trailer with surprises. The other problem is one can go through so much work and expense and if one is looking at the end value of the trailer after the work is done on it, its still an aged trailer as per the year it was built. Proceed with caution is all I can say.
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Post by Oatking on Jun 17, 2022 6:13:03 GMT -6
The trailer was done in 2019 and yes even the rims were sand blasted and painted. Bergs use a good quality paint compared to load line. Load line is ok but as soon as its a year old a lot of paints goes MIA.
Northern Farmer, I agree, you have to know what you got in a trailer. I had Bergs look at it prior to the work to see if it was worth restoring. The structure was really in good shape and had surface rust not deep flaking rust or steel cracks.
I seriously considered a new triple axil but decided to spend the money on this trailer. Call lenard at bergs or Pet , maybe send them pictures for a good estimate.
I am not surprised the quote to repair is more now. Look at everything else!
Interesting story NF about the customs guy trailer splitting in half. I see lots of trailers on the road with tail lights dragging on the pavement or duck tape on the side of the trailer. How do those make safety.
I agree with NF to be careful what you decide to do.
Maybe in this current high inflation era it makes the decision even more difficult. Wow 60g to fix a super b. A super b can cost 135 g so maybe we just have to get use to these new inflated numbers. Funny how we get use to 25 dollar a bushel canola real fast but as soon as we want to buy something we raise our eye browse and stand back.!
What is the best brand named grain trailer. I believe like everything else made , quality of product compared to others makes should go into the decision.
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Post by meskie on Jun 17, 2022 7:10:59 GMT -6
Did bergs use better paint then what they put on their own trailers? I’ve seen a few of them around and our neighbours had a tri axle and the paint wasn’t very good after a couple years.
When these guys got the super b fixed you could buy a new set for under 100.
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