|
|
Post by iamwill on Jan 8, 2022 11:36:35 GMT -6
Looking to upgrade some seeding equipment and have been wanting to get a double shoot air drill. Need something that will work in tilled soil and also seed through cornstalks, also needs to be narrow spaced (under 10, 7.5 or less would be best) and also be able to deliver 500+ lbs per acre of product. Looking for a 40 foot drill so I can pull it with my fwa tractor. Have a useless old flexicoil 5000 now that I use for banding but need something better for seeding. I used the flexicoil once for seeding wheat and it was terrible, works ok for peas though. Only will be using it for about 1200 acres a year for small grains and peas as everything else is done with a planter. Not looking for anything new, fancy or expensive just something that will work. Any suggestions?
|
|
|
|
Post by slipclutch on Jan 8, 2022 11:51:21 GMT -6
Old concord. With the new case air tank that can push 650lbs of product no problem.
|
|
|
|
Post by SWMan on Jan 8, 2022 14:48:30 GMT -6
Bourgault may have made a narrow spaced disc drill with midrows in 40', but good luck finding one. K-Hart can do whatever now, but that's new. Deere 1895 if you can compromise on the spacing with 10". Then there is the Pottinger/Horsch units with a high speed disc for fertilizer incorporation with narrow spacing behind, those take power though. Might be left with some complicated double shoot boot that might not be much better than what you have. I'm at a loss here if anything is a precise fit, curious to hear other answers.
|
|
MBRfarms
Junior Member
Posts: 95
Likes: 133
|
Post by MBRfarms on Jan 8, 2022 17:26:02 GMT -6
If you weren't happy with the Flexi 5000 in wheat I'm assuming you're looking at disc drills mainly. They are likely the best option for narrow spacing/accurate placement but are basically all single shoot under 10" spacing. Atom Jet makes granular and liquid double shoot boots for Case SDX drills and liquid ones for the newer 500/P2080 drills, not sure how high of rates you can safely put down but should be able to get a good shot down safely. 40ft SDXs can be found pretty reasonably it seems, add a bit for fixing up some wear points and a double shoot conversion and you'd be running for a lot less than anything close to new. For a cereals only drill I'd be more inclined to get the narrowest spacing with the most accurate placement you can get and not worry about trying to piece together a one pass fertilizer system and sacrifice efficiency or seed placement/spacing. Get the best stand possible with a good starter blend and add the rest in crop, cereals really respond well to top dressing.
|
|
|
|
Post by iamwill on Jan 9, 2022 14:31:12 GMT -6
There is not much availability for ds drills of any size with narrow spacing. Pretty much need to go with a disk drill just to deal with trash but what what has enough down pressure to maintain depth? One of my brothers had a jd 1890 or 1895 and had nothing but issues in hard ground if there was any trash especially pea vines. The case may be an option but by the time I find something get the parts and get it done I may run out of time. Calving starts in a couple weeks and it's not uncommon to be seeding by March 20th or so and have a shop full of other projects. Did go look at an amity but was parked in the grass and drifted in with snow and cold and windy so didn't get a really good look at it. Looked them up on the other cf and nobody had anything good to say about them so idk. The reason I like to put down all or most of my fertilizer at seeding is that we are on irrigation and once the pivots get started it's hard to get back in to top dress. The last time I had it done cost $12/acre and the tracks were still visible at harvest, also cost a couple bu yield due to the tracks, could see it on the combine monitor so not just cosmetic. Usually put 15-30lbs of n on through the pivot but costs a few cents more per pound and is a pain in the butt, I don't know if putting half of the fertilizer down that way would even be feasible.
|
|
|
|
Post by OptimallyDismal on Jan 9, 2022 14:42:00 GMT -6
Why wouldn't you inject fertilizer into irrigation water and top dress that way? The potato guys do it that way here.
|
|
|
|
Post by torriem on Jan 29, 2022 23:00:58 GMT -6
This year the cost of N per pound is the same liquid and dry. Definitely no reason not to do it. We typically put on 45-60# using 28-0-0 in the pivot on nearly all our fields. Normally we do them in 15# shots, but this year we might change it up and try doing more little shots (right at the beginning of irrigation in May). What makes it such a pain, iamwill ? |
|
|
|
Post by iamwill on Jan 30, 2022 13:27:09 GMT -6
Moving tanks around, especially if the water outlet is at the pivot point, monitoring tank levels and getting them filled on time. Dealing with plugged filters, stuck check valves, ruptured hoses, leaking fittings (even brand new stuff) etc. Trying to get enough fertilizer on early enough when the crops don't need much moisture is also an issue, especially when trying to time it around spraying. We normally do put 30 or so lbs through the pivots but generally it is later in the season. Was looking through the manual for my fc 3450 tank and it shows that it can deliver 400lbs per acre per meter (coarse roller) but it does not state at what speed or how many foot of drill per run it is capable of doing it at. Anyone know where I should look for more information?
|
|
|
|
Post by slipclutch on Jan 30, 2022 14:20:49 GMT -6
On that fc 3450. If you can run a dual fan at 5500-6000rpm. And play with the choke's on the side. You will put about 500+~ lbs of product. 60’ 6mph. If not slow Down you’re seed to 5mph. It will push the product.
I had the variable rate cart. Mechanical could be different
|
|
|
|
Post by iamwill on Jan 30, 2022 15:39:28 GMT -6
My cart is variable rate but only single fan. Right now it is on a 57 foot single shoot fc 5000 with 7.2 inch spacing. Can put down 450lbs of product at 6mph without issues using all 8 runs. My question is will it work on a 40 foot drill with 7.5 inch spacing and midrow banders using only 4 runs? So about 150lbs down the seed tube and 400lbs down the banders. Could add more towers but costs money and I'm having trouble justify the expense as it is. Would like to increase my speed to 7mph or more under the right conditions.
|
|
|
|
Post by slipclutch on Jan 30, 2022 18:20:37 GMT -6
You would need the dual fan. I think it would work. But 7mph plus??? Don't think so. I seed at 6.5mph with disk leavers. 10” spacing
You would need levers.
|
|
|
|
Post by iamwill on Jan 30, 2022 19:50:11 GMT -6
Is the dual fan necessary to supply enough air or is it just not possible to balance the airflow with a single fan? My old drill has 8 towers with 12 openers each. The drill I am looking at has 4 towers with 16 openers for seed and 4 towers with 8 openers for fertilizer. Each drill has 96 seed/fertilizer tubes so the total amount of air needed should be the same, no? On a side note why are bourgault seed carts so expensive in comparison to fc/case/nh? They seem so simple.
|
|
|
|
Post by torriem on Jan 30, 2022 21:32:57 GMT -6
I'm thinking it would be in issue of total airflow. Both fans feed into the same plenum.
5500 rpm would really be screaming! We put down 430# of product over 52' at 5 mph with about 3800 rpm of ran. That's 8 runs, 10" spacing. I doubt my tractor can put enough oil out to get the fan much over 4500, but we've never run short of air. Not planting at 7 mph, though!
I think the airflow required doesn't have that much to do with the total number of runs or main runs, but more to do with the amount of product. We usually set our fan using the mass air flow sensor and a chart in the manual. We run just enough air to not plug, but no more than required. There are some formulas for calculating what's required and in my experience it's very close.
I did find out that rust on the inside of the pipes means you need more air flow. I replaced everything with stainless and that reduced the risk of plugging quite a bit in my estimation.
The new CNH carts are not cheap. I think $400k for the cart, not even with the toolbar.
|
|
|
|
Post by torriem on Jan 30, 2022 21:42:01 GMT -6
Moving tanks around, especially if the water outlet is at the pivot point, monitoring tank levels and getting them filled on time. Dealing with plugged filters, stuck check valves, ruptured hoses, leaking fittings (even brand new stuff) etc. Trying to get enough fertilizer on early enough when the crops don't need much moisture is also an issue, especially when trying to time it around spraying. We normally do put 30 or so lbs through the pivots but generally it is later in the season. What kind of pumps are you using? I use piston pumps that suck through a very coarse screen that I haven't checked in years because I'm lazy. Probably don't even need a screen. Stainless injector/check valve in the water pipe. I've never experienced any plugging. I know the tank is often full of flies, dirt, etc, but it all goes through the pump and into the water. I did have problems with the plastic 30 gph injectors. They are rubbish. I use the stainless 100s and there's no way you could plug those. I rarely go much over 40 gph. We have tanks at most pump sites permanently that we use so it makes that part easier. I do have to shuttle my pumps around, which is a bit of pain, but the timing between winter wheat, spring wheat, and canola makes that easier. I don't lose too much sleep on the accuracy of the rate. I measure what I put out on that run and adjust the pivot speed to change the rate for the second and third shots. We usually wait until after herbicide to do the first shot so we're not causing problems for the sprayer. Some guys around here do fungicide through the pivot (Lance in particular). I'd have to worry about the rate a little more with that one, and keep it agitated. Since water does not come on until may, we do rely on ESN for the Winter wheat so we don't have to top dress in April. I feel ESN works very well, although I recently talked to an agronomist who doesn't feel like ESN is a good fit for western Canada. |
|
|
|
Post by iamwill on Jan 30, 2022 23:06:48 GMT -6
I usually run the fan at 5500 rpms and yes it screams! Don't have plugging issues even at 6.5 mph if product and air are dry and everything is sealed up properly. If I try to run it much faster it tends to start surging, not sure if the air pressure gets too high or if it is hydraulic related. In regards to using liquid through the pivots vs granular at seeding I have found on my sandy soil if we get too much moisture the prebanded fertilizer tends to leach and then we need to start fertigating as soon as the water comes on. This seems to be more of a problem if I cut back on fertilizer at seeding or fall band. Thus the reason for the search for a double shoot disk drill. Have tried banding shallower but then end up with seed burn. I use the piston type injection pumps (I think they are john blue) and if I use coarser filters the check valves in the pumps seem to get even more crap in them. Then when I go to check on them the pump isn't pumping anything and I have to calculate how much was dispensed since I last checked it (hopefully I marked the tank at the time) and either run the pivot back or run it around again. Not an exact science.
|
|
