CTS2
Junior Member
Posts: 70 Likes: 27
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Post by CTS2 on Oct 6, 2021 5:25:17 GMT -6
What do you all run in your trailer wheel bearings?
Oil?
Grease?
Semi-fluid grease?
What brands and grade?
What is your bearing setting procedure?
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Post by Albertabuck on Oct 6, 2021 8:02:55 GMT -6
Guessing we are talking large trailers. With new bearings wet with oil, torque to 200 pounds while turning hub, back off one turn, do not turn hub, retighten to 20. Used bearings, pre torque to 200 turning hub, back off one turn, do not turn hub, retorque to 50, back off about quarter turn. Torque lock nuts to min 250. 80-90 gear oil.
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Post by northernfarmer on Oct 6, 2021 9:05:56 GMT -6
Also assuming grain trailer or other heavy trailers pulled with a highway tractor. Any trailers I have around are oil bath hubs and since they don't take much oil anyway I use full synthetic 75W-90 gear oil. I have not seen any temperature restriction for hot climates for this oil but if one felt more comfortable in Australia to use lets say full synthetic 75W-140 instead that would be totally fine as well. I do the same traditional industry standard wheel end adjustment procedure as AB outlined with the 1/4 turn backoff ( it all depends on the threads per inch of the hub, there are listings for each thead pitch in regards to the backoff rotation ) but then I take it to that last step of checking every hub I work on with a dial indicator to know for sure what I have. Now traditional industry standard has listed .001 to .005 thousands of end play, some newer style single piece nuts with locking ring say .001 to .003 for example and there is even newer fancy tooling out there for a certain brand of wheel end hardware that gets the tolerance even closer yet. In any event I try to get as close as I can to that .001 end play with the dial indicator after the wheel end locking nut is torqued up ( if your hubs have that double nut style ) . At that limited end play its impossible to feel it as one pushes and then pulls on the hub without that dial indicator. Now lets say you are working on a wheel end and its due to replacing brakes or the seal is weeping and when you do the push/pull on a hub after taking the tires off and hear and feel a distinct clunk when going in and out and then rotate the hub and hear a resonating rough sound, that is the "oh shit" moment when you know you have to pull it apart and more then likely replace the bearings and the seal, water having gotten into the oil ( from rain/washing/natural condensation ) is the big enemy of hub ends from what I see. On older trucks on the steering axle that were set up to use grease as they didn't have the clear window hub cap, I use typical number 2 extreme pressure lithium base grease. I like to feel with my hand on the hubs for the temperature after I have hauled a load of grain a distance, compare the feel of the newly worked on hub relative to the other hubs and be that a drive axle or non powered axle, a large heat disparity as in much warmer is going to indicate an issue.
I do NOT have the vast experience AB has had with wheel ends but have used manufactures wheel end instructions to get me to the similar end result ( no hubs have failed or come off yet if that is of any comfort ! )
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Post by Albertabuck on Oct 6, 2021 12:54:17 GMT -6
I do NOT have the vast experience AB has had with wheel ends but have used manufactures wheel end instructions to get me to the similar end result ( no hubs have failed or come off yet if that is of any comfort ! )
Hey no need for a disclaimer there C lol, I know you realize that often the advice I give is slightly different than what I actually do lol. Honestly I had to think of what the numbers we used to instruct others to use. I won't deny, other than new bearings or steering hubs at anytime, I do not use a torque wrench, its all by feel and experience. Steering is one you never mess with. As I always say, if you can't steer it or stop it, you best be parking it. Truck drive axles have their own methods too. As for doing it completely by the book, you are correct checking end play. When it comes to wheel bearings, I have never done that once in my life. I simply will feel for the play and pay attention to the rolling resistance. One thing I will add, over tightening the lock nut will increase preload or decrease bearing play. Always check things after the outer nut has been tightened. Speaking of steering, when you get into running oversize rubber, different torque values come into play. One final thought...most wheel hubs that come off during use are due to bearings being too tight....
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Post by northernfarmer on Oct 6, 2021 14:05:42 GMT -6
Indeed too tight a bearing would cause heat which would be the demise of the bearings in more then likely a catastrophic manor. Also on the theme of loosing a whole wheel end ( wheels and hub/drum all as a unit ready to kill anything in its path ) is forgetting to bend the tabs over on the lock tab washer assembly or reusing one that is well past its prime and the tab or keyway tang is about to break off or not torquing up that lock nut well enough as well as doing a crap job with the tab locking washer assembly. As well with drive axles its easy to not realize that simply putting the axle wheel end back together and checking the lube level in the diff is NOT sufficient as the wheel end can't get lube into it until the axle housing is tipped ( I think its either 6 or 8 inches up on the outer wheel end and sat for a few minutes ) and then re top off the diff or unless the hub has a fill plug that can have oil pumped into it to the point where it would actually flow back to the main diff pumpkin. A while ago I saw a video of a shop who had some apprentice I assume do a wheel seal on a drive axle and did not get oil back into the hub and it was sent down the road ( it was being sold so was being bob tailed to the new owner but never made it there ) and the whole hub/tires parted ways of the truck and fortunately didn't hit anyone in the process. Those bearings would have totally failed and in not all that many miles apparently for the destruction to take place. I guess the moral of the story is don't trust wheel end work to just any hack job person who assumes they know what they are doing but really doesn't.
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glensts
New Member
Posts: 10 Likes: 9
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Post by glensts on Oct 6, 2021 18:36:07 GMT -6
Because some of our trailers didn't see many miles we would have leaky wheel seals all the time. I switched all my trailers,(super b's, tridems) to Petro Cans full synthetic grease. Been almost 10 years on some. No oil seals leaking anymore and no issues. Maybe its just a "me" thing but I sure like it better. Now I see on the new super b's they also run a greased bearing
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Post by northernfarmer on Oct 6, 2021 21:50:40 GMT -6
Because some of our trailers didn't see many miles we would have leaky wheel seals all the time. I switched all my trailers,(super b's, tridems) to Petro Cans full synthetic grease. Been almost 10 years on some. No oil seals leaking anymore and no issues. Maybe its just a "me" thing but I sure like it better. Now I see on the new super b's they also run a greased bearing Do you happen to know what seal style was used from the factory or that you used to repair those leaking wheel ends vs the seals you installed when you converted over to the grease filled hubs. The reason I ask is that over time and if a unit is being dragged down winter roads you get salt and probably a calcium chloride mix rusting between the axle housing and the surface of the seal that rests on the axle if its of the multi groove rubber type inner diameter like seems commonly used on some trailers and truck wheel ends from the factory. A mechanic I know that works on a lot of trailers and trucks was finding that when they would pull wheel ends for example due to brake jobs/servicing and if they put that same style of seal back in they would soon have the unit back in the shop with wheel ends leaking oil ( trucks for example as there is no choice other than the gear oil in the diffs ) and it was the deep pitting on the axle housings that did not allow that seal to hold the oil in properly like it could when the truck had a new rust free axle end. They found that once the axle metal was degraded and pitted like that they would change the seal out with the stemco grit guard unit which uses what I call a speedy sleeve pounded onto the axle housing ( silicone is used on that pitted axle to create a good seal to the inside diameter of the speedy sleeve ) and then the main portion of the seal installed into the hub. Its not as easy a seal system to work with as special installers are required vs one that gets thrown into the hub by hand with no special tools but its sure a popular seal for used equipment.
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glensts
New Member
Posts: 10 Likes: 9
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Post by glensts on Oct 7, 2021 5:46:24 GMT -6
We put the same type seals back in. Some were the speedy sleeve type, some were the CR which rotates in itself. We filled what we could with grease. I know now they have a special seal for grease applications but I've never used one yet
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ltk
Junior Member
Posts: 80 Likes: 98
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Post by ltk on Oct 7, 2021 7:49:31 GMT -6
I have 30' gooseneck trailer that I haul sprayer boom son. Last trip to Oklahoma to get booms, on the way home, I lost a hub in Saskatoon. Heard the tire blow and as i pulled over, the hub assembly fell off. Bearing had failed. Interestingly, I have a habit of doing a walk around every time I stop and feel the hubs and my last walk around was in Moosejaw and they were all cold. I took it to a trailer shop in Saskatoon and left the trailer there because the spindle was pooched so the axle needed replacing. When to was fixed i went back and picked it up. The next time I used that trailer was this spring when I delivered a set of booms to Sylvan Lake, about 5 hours one way. As usual, I did my walk around d when ever I stopped and found that the hubs on the new axle where running quite warm, bordering on hot. The old axle was cold. I stopped on the side of the road and drove the cold axle up on a block so i could spin the tire on the new axle. Seemed fine but I pulled the dust cap and loosened the nut and retightened it by feel to what seemed to me to be about right but error on the loose side as i did not want it too tight. Carried on and that hub temp did b]\not change. It STILL ran hot. Made the round trip with no issues and have only used that trailer for short local trips since.STILL don't know what is going on there.
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Post by badaltitude on Oct 7, 2021 8:00:50 GMT -6
Had heard some time ago that newer grain trailers were going to greased bearings instead of oil. Lot less maintenance salesman told me. Just wondering what that grease works like in extreme cold temps. Do you notice any extra rolling resistance till the bearings warm up? I have an old Arnes lowbed that I bought used probably 30 years ago which came with greased bearings and has been trouble free. Did the brakes a couple of years ago and bearing all checked out ok so put it back together with synthetic grease for lubrication. Great option for those rarely used units for sure. But I remember when I used to use it regularly in the winter you definitely could feel the extra drag till the bearings warmed up. Nowadays I might just make a short move to one of the farms in winter so hard to tell. Probably do have some better grease option available nowadays in that regard I'd imagine.
My very unprofessional method of tightening wheel bearing has always been just by checking the drag as an indicator of tightness. Usually snug the nut right up and check for resistence. Then back it off and start retightening till you start to feel a slight resistence. I usually allow a little more resistence for new bearings. Then as I tighten the lock nut I recheck the drag to make sure it hasn't been overtightened. Finally when I finally hit the road I'll stop a mile or two down and put my hand on the hub near the bearings and check for excessive heat. Then I'll check it again further down the road. A properly tightened bearing will run just warm (depending on ambient temp) in my opinion.
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Post by Albertabuck on Oct 7, 2021 9:05:20 GMT -6
I have several older hiboys and such which have grease hubs on them and they worked fine for their time and what I use them for now. Where the oil bath bearings come into play is the higher speeds and increased loads seen in today's modern transport. Same reason the hubs on steering axles went to wet as well. Certainly grease is more than sufficient under most conditions, however when you get into high speed, then not recommended so much. I have switched different trailers over to grease myself, however my main ones I use on the hyway will stay with their oil.
An interesting thing that comes to mind is the same way all the heavy discs have went to oil bath bearings. Now with them I am the opposite, I'm so very happy my old big Kello has the greasable still, but again, there is a reason the switch was made to oil.
I have seen under the right circumstances in sub -40 where wheels will drag simply from the resistance of oil in the hubs, thats when you can start tearing up seals as well but its just the nature of the beast, till someone invents a better mouse trap...
More often than not, a seal starts leaking due to the hub being run loose.
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Post by badaltitude on Oct 7, 2021 12:21:54 GMT -6
My old lowbed has the oil type hubs just that the previous owner packed the bearing with grease and filled the hubs with as much grease as could be stuffed in through the rubber level plug. I had a Kello with grease type bearings or they may have been sealed I cant remember but would still go through the odd bearing. I later bought one with the oil hubs. I had to replace one bearing that had been leaking shortly after getting the disc but luckily it came with a spare. Right about that time I went and pumped a fair amount of grease into all the bearings. I've since almost worn out a set of plates and haven't looked at a bearing.
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tsipp
Junior Member
Spring valley, Saskatchewan
Posts: 97 Likes: 64
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Post by tsipp on Oct 7, 2021 19:05:21 GMT -6
My stock trailer had oil bath and last fall I changed it over to grease, I don’t know which one is better but I don’t worry about the grease running out.
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