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Post by prairieboy on Feb 8, 2021 10:51:05 GMT -6
It has been my observation that high yield achieving farmers are big on fungicide use. My question to such is to you ever second guess yourselves? Is there reason to be concerned about taking out good bacteria as collateral damage when going after harmful bacteria? None of us would give our kids a regular diet of rotating antibiotics knowing that we would harm them in the long run. We only use such tools when faced with serious infections and yet when it comes to crops it seems the approach is "Looks like a good crop better protect it."
I do some custom harvesting for farmers who have very good dirt (some of the best in Manitoba) and they use fungicides religiously. They are in their 60s and tell me that when they were younger before fungicides were an available option they never had fusarium in their wheat but now if they don't spray they always do. Why is that? Are we cutting off our nose to spite our face?
I'm like anyone else I need to be profitable this year not 10 years from now so if fungicides are the ticket to help get there I will use them. I would like to understand the science behind it all though. If it is harmful to the whole I would look for ways to avoid spraying as opposed to excuses to spray. With all the microbial activity in the soil and its importance (which no one denies) could it be negatively affected by fungicide applications? It seems hard to find good information for these questions. On one hand you have people preaching organic without any real scientific data and on the other you have chemical companies and university experts all parroting the same thing about the benefits of fungicides.
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Post by Oatking on Feb 8, 2021 11:12:08 GMT -6
Quality of cereals is more important than yield these days, and so its just an accepted cost in my budget. In canola its more debatable on the yield increase some years and quality is not affected as much from no fungicide. Although in the red river valley often times the disease level is so high it doesnt matter what you do it wont eliminate the risk but in wet years 5 % vomi might get you something in the market instead of 8-15 % vomi which is really bad and you end off pawning it off slowly.
I try to switch up fungicide groups and regularly apply twice yearly in oats and wheat. Lets face it , the world normally has a lot of grain and you dont want to be the guy with sub standard quality.
Interestingly , My pop said years ago when he farmed he noticed white kernels in the 60s and 70 s , and not so much in the eighties because of a decade dry spell, but he said nobody really paid too much attention to it. It wasnt till 1993 when that wet year bought fuzz to the fore front. He had little options to spray back then and wheat genetics were poorer back then.
I would rather have good plant genetics as opposed to fungicides but right now fungicides will stay in the tool box.
Organic is a whole other can of worms and feel if we all did organic around the world , a lot of people would starve.
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Post by SWMan on Feb 8, 2021 15:23:07 GMT -6
Fusarium showed up here before fungicide use was part of anyone's program, so I don't think that disease is caused by fungicide use or weakened plants because of poor soil from chemical use. Actually in recent years I have been a heavy fungicide user but have occasionally skipped an application for whatever reason, and I don't see the crop being devastated in those situations. Perhaps that is from better genetics, but I wonder if the regular use of fungicides has lowered the disease pressure somewhat?
I've definitely heard of what you are mentioning there, but never really seen it myself. Often the pitch of "fungicide bad" is coming from someone trying to sell you snake oil, many of those products I have never got any response from. Fungicides always seem to work though, hence their broad acceptance.
I won't say we are doing everything proper, always trying new stuff to test things. But like Oatking said, if we all went organic half the world would starve.
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nvw
Full Member
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Post by nvw on Feb 8, 2021 17:30:24 GMT -6
Poor rotations have caused disease pressure IMO.
If we went Organic maybe we would get more return, naw, they would find some other way to screw us.
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Post by torriem on Feb 8, 2021 21:46:50 GMT -6
It is quite likely that over using fungicides is going to be harmful in the long run. There have been some studies to suggest that fungicide is inherently harmful to the soil, killing beneficial fungi and leaving soils largely bacterial. Some believe this opens the soil and crops to colonization from harmful fungi. Makes me wonder if fungicide isn't a treadmill that will bite us some day.
We use some fungicide on cereals. Most of the time there's a clear pay back, so it's hard to not want to keep doing it.
My agronomist tells me he has a client in Saskatchewan who's intercropping flax and chickpeas. Says the two crops together eliminate the need for any fungicide on the chick peas. I've heard of others reducing or eliminating fungicides by applying other magic organic cocktales of various sorts.
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Post by kevlar on Feb 8, 2021 22:03:26 GMT -6
I think maybe your area and soil type plays a big role in it, and no doubt the weather. We very seldom spray fungicides, in fact, can't remember when we last did. Are we losing yield because of it? Maybe, but talking to others in my area that spray, I would say we are in the same yield range they are. Varieties play a role in disease etc. as well, we grow mainly Conlon barley but try different varieties from time to time, and some years the other varieties are higher in vomi than Conlon is. We don't grow wheat and have found that helps to keep the vomi lower in our barley. Scientific it's not, but enough evidence to convince us. Usually most years that the weather would justify an application here, the crop is pretty poor from being drowned out so no miracle would help it any way. I wouldn't say to never spray it, but at the same time think that over use will no doubt cause issues down the road. I feel it's like along the same lines as guys that spray for flea beetles every year as soon as they see one. We seldom ever spray or have to spray for them, but notice that some guys now spray every year and usually more than once. If you remove the good, the bad has nothing to keep it in check. Just my opinion.
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Post by snapper22 on Feb 8, 2021 22:06:12 GMT -6
I’m a small potatoes operation so I scout before I decide to apply fungicide on wheat and barley. Oats is a no brainer for weight and yield. Seed treatments I’m of the same mind as well. I hate how fungicides delay maturity by a week. Sometimes we don’t have that week for an extra 5 bushels. As well, nature abhors to a vacuum, so kill bad and good fungus and who takes the spot? That’s my farm, my conditions, and my crazy beliefs. Every farm is different.
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Post by meskie on Feb 8, 2021 22:32:33 GMT -6
For us fungicide on oats doesn’t seem to do much. But we spray our wheat because of fusarium and have noticed a yield bump doing so. Guys 10 miles away have seen no difference so every area or farm is different.
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Post by SWMan on Feb 9, 2021 0:05:28 GMT -6
I think nvw's point about rotation is a good one. We used to be a 50/50 wheat/canola rotation and I would say that's when our disease pressure was highest. Could be a coincidence but mixing in some soybeans and corn could be helping. Neither crop is sprayed with any kind of fungicide, although it does get at least two apps or glyphosate. In recent years(probably four now) I have not desiccated anything and very little post harvest glyphosate because of the later crops and lack of re-growth and nice weather.
I do wonder if that fall glyphosate was just as bad as fungicides, but that's just me thinking out loud. I do think the diversity of early and late crops and rotating through crop types as well as fungicide groups has to be a benefit to making this all work better. Wheat definitely yields higher after soybeans than canola, seen that a few times.
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