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Post by northernfarmer on Feb 1, 2024 13:36:44 GMT -6
I looked up the unit that I think is yours and as I discovered lately and the info for this generator is on that same theme, propane produces more power than nat gas for some reason which I found interesting as I just didn't realize there would be a difference. So yours would put out 94 amps ( 22500 watts ) at maximum continuous load based on 240 volts. I would imagine at times if there was something on that took a high load at the critical time the power went out, it would try to start the load and then self protect, and you would have to shut off the extra loads and then manually reset the unit. Most aeration fans these days have magnetic switches with momentary start switch so when the power goes out they will not restart so would not cause an issue with the generators operation, water pumps, compressor in the shop etc would though if they were too much for the generator. Very nice unit though Hardrock, worlds ahead of my struggles with a small generator illegally back feeding one leg of the breaker box with 120 volts into the house system and turning off the main breaker in the house so as not to back feed into the transformer and shock a lineman. Then only being able to run very limited items that are wired onto that load line of the breaker box, namely the furnace motor is my goal. This last go around I ran additional cords into the basement window ( in addition to the back feeding with my special pigtail cord to the clothes dryer outlet ) to run two deep freezes. Ran the furnace first to warm up the house, then unplug that and plugged in the freezers. Had it been cold I would have had to say screw the freezers and just concentrate on the furnace. I used to have a 5000 watt 240 volt generator I wired up with a four wire plug and back fed through the clothes dryer plug that way but it was a pile of crap generator ( a coleman piece of shit as I refer to it as ) and the problem was that it sat out in the cold so would be impossible to start if it was cold out. The last years I have had a 2000 wattt honda and just leave it in the basement so its warm ready to go, its enough to run the furnace/ or two deep freezes. Not ideal in the least but better than nothing at all !
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Post by hardrockacres on Feb 1, 2024 14:48:57 GMT -6
Yea this one can run my whole house with ease I think they recomend 11kw as a min whole house unit. When we first commissioned it we turned on every electrical item in the house, (lights, furnace and fireplace fans, washer dryer, microwave, etc.), kicked off the main breaker at the pole and the generator fired up and didnt even grunt. I have tried firing aeration fans with the gen on and it had no problem with 2 of the fans with 7.5 motors firing up, (not simultaniously), and with the house under "normal"load at the time. Not that I will ever run the fans if the power is out, I would think I have bigger issues with an outage than dryign /cooling grain.
I bought it to keep my sewer from backing up as I mentioned previously as when they built my house the have all the basement weeping tile routed to the septic tank. And to keep my well from freezing up as my pumps are in a seperate building from the house. Its just a bonus that my shop and whole yard have power. Not sure how many years I have had it but I would guess it has been 7-10. I was checking it at X-Mass and it has a internal hour meter...it has run 44 hours in that time. Not that i have had that many outages aas the hour meter add the 10 min every 2 weeks when it does the self check. Regardless it lets me sleep easy at night if we are gone and the power goes our at home during a rain storm.
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Post by northernfarmer on Feb 1, 2024 16:12:10 GMT -6
I am very surprised that it could even start one 7.5 aeration motor without quite a struggle and bogging down ( causing stress to the aeration motor ) as they typically take a lot of start up amperage and for a period of time as it winds up to speed and why some breaker brands/models are not happy to start an aeration fan. So to be able to have some house hold load on and then start one and then the second fan, that is impressive. After all its only a 999 cc motor ( I did not see the hp listing ) .
I assume there is a setting or some sort of disconnect switch so the unit can't start up when lets say ... your in the middle of changing the engine oil on the generator and the power goes out !
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Post by northernfarmer on Feb 1, 2024 21:06:39 GMT -6
I thought to look up the maximum gust for Grande Prairie two days back when the power went out and it was 112 km, that's getting pretty strong although the wind could have been higher or lower here.
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Post by OptimallyDismal on Feb 1, 2024 21:27:17 GMT -6
I was at a colony decades ago doing work on the metering so they started the generator, it was a Jesus big Cat, pretty sure it was a V12, not sure how many KVA, but when he transferred the load he had 2 big breakers on the wall, one for incoming hydro and one for their generator. So he had one hand on each breaker and operated them at the same time, timed it perfectly, didn't even see a blink on the lights!
The other side of the coin (I wasn't in attendance for this one) was another colony somehow backfed onto the line and blew up some regulators and transformers and caused the whole feeder to trip, then they said they didn't do it and it was Hydro's fault. Turned out they fried some of their equipment and it came out in a much later conversation.
Those were big old school systems unlike todays automated ones but very interesting to see. Pretty sure none of that would be allowed these days.
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Post by northernfarmer on Feb 1, 2024 22:13:36 GMT -6
That would be playing with fire to have a large generator on a manual system like that at the colony you were at, can you imagine if there was an arc flash on one of those breakers assuming they were exposed enough that it could do harm. And like you said, I expect very much not to code and a major danger for the linemen, even what I did and the other neighbours around doing similar with no transfer switch but manually going through the motions, its not 100% fool proof if a person doesn't understand what they are doing. That is a number of years ago when I was told by the closest colony that they had this backup generator building and I think at that time they said it was a 250kva rated cat generator.
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Post by OptimallyDismal on Feb 2, 2024 7:19:20 GMT -6
I think it was the 2 breakers with the sliding bar type of transfer switch, they took the bar off so they could operate both breakers.
Definitely not foolproof.
I wonder with the way we are doing with no transfer switch if we lock the mains with a properly filled out hold card if it is actually allowable, it should be by the switching practices.
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Post by hardrockacres on Feb 2, 2024 9:10:56 GMT -6
I am very surprised that it could even start one 7.5 aeration motor without quite a struggle and bogging down ( causing stress to the aeration motor ) as they typically take a lot of start up amperage and for a period of time as it winds up to speed and why some breaker brands/models are not happy to start an aeration fan. So to be able to have some house hold load on and then start one and then the second fan, that is impressive. After all its only a 999 cc motor ( I did not see the hp listing ) .
I assume there is a setting or some sort of disconnect switch so the unit can't start up when lets say ... your in the middle of changing the engine oil on the generator and the power goes out !
Yes it has an internal shut off to not allow the motor to start when doing any maintenance on the unit |
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Post by northernfarmer on Feb 2, 2024 11:16:47 GMT -6
I think it was the 2 breakers with the sliding bar type of transfer switch, they took the bar off so they could operate both breakers. Definitely not foolproof. I wonder with the way we are doing with no transfer switch if we lock the mains with a properly filled out hold card if it is actually allowable, it should be by the switching practices. That is a good question, not sure who one would ask and get a non guessing answer, no doubt someone within the power company would have that answer due to the fact its their equipment that is being locked with the tag. So what I am doing is certainly not legal although I have mentioned it in the past due to the power being out and talked to the area lineman as he was repairing the damage to the line coming into the yard so he aware of what I was doing. He didn't react in horror as he knows this goes on but again from a legal standpoint I was in the wrong. |
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Post by meskie on Feb 2, 2024 12:05:18 GMT -6
Saskpower requires a transfer switch on the pole if your to set up a genset in your yard. That way power can’t back feed into the line as they are working on it. Even having a suicide cord hooked up to run your house it can back feed through the neutral and cause sone issues is what I’m told.
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Post by northernfarmer on Feb 2, 2024 12:56:30 GMT -6
Saskpower requires a transfer switch on the pole if your to set up a genset in your yard. That way power can’t back feed into the line as they are working on it. Even having a suicide cord hooked up to run your house it can back feed through the neutral and cause some issues is what I’m told. That makes sense that the uneven load, another words powering up one leg ( 120 volts vs an even 240 volt load ) requiring the use of the neutral wire would backfeed the grid system although having said that isn't the ground and the neutral bonded at the transformer pole ?. Hard to say how much gets back fed through the neutral but I see your point and am not at all surprised if the power company would state its a transfer switch utilized or nothing.
I laughed at your terminology for the male/male ( luckily we still understand things like that on this forum ! ) calling it a suicide cord as that is a good name for it !. The other day over the phone I was talking about the feeding back into the house to a neighbour with his yard setup and about having to turn the power off at the pole etc and that the cord itself when made up IS an issue as you don't want to mishandle it when using it for this emergency purpose nor do you want it kicking around so that just anyone can grab ahold of it and try using it as a regular cord not realizing its very dangerous given the exposed male end that could be powered up if done the wrong way. So a person has to think about it when going through the motions to hook up the suicide cord, not allowing the exposed remaining end to be powered up, and having the procedure written down rather than in a panic when the power is out do the wrong thing. But again, none of it is advised in reality for all the dangers it can pose.
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Post by OptimallyDismal on Feb 2, 2024 14:06:05 GMT -6
I heard Saskpower installs the transfer switch, that way it gets done the way they want it and at no charge, so people don't have to mess around.
Makes sense if safety really is a priority.
Will never happen in Mb.
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Post by meskie on Feb 2, 2024 14:57:42 GMT -6
Yes saskpower installs the switches so it’s done right. Not sure how it back feeds just what a lineman told me when I was talking to him after the power was out here for a couple days a few years ago.
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tsipp
Junior Member
Spring valley, Saskatchewan
Posts: 98
Likes: 64
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Post by tsipp on Feb 3, 2024 8:27:31 GMT -6
The typical SaskPower transfer switch is 700 bucks, it just plugs in between the meter and the meter socket, I think it’s the same plug that a 50 amp RV would use.
the same ones on Amazon are a little more than double the money.
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Post by Oatking on Feb 13, 2024 16:50:00 GMT -6
 well mrs oat king is helping work on this project ! Pretty cool how oat starch can preserve food . Full article in Manitoba cooperator . oats have had quite a bit of research innovations lately . Oat protein was in the news promoting a healthy heart . Agriculture Canada has some pretty smart scientists . I know the two scientists working on this oat material and they love farming as well . They are very down to earth phd guys but find what us farmers do is so interesting. mrs oat king works with these scientists in the lab. work like this will help us get more exposure on the world market . That will be great for oat prices !! |
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