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Post by northernfarmer on Apr 2, 2021 12:28:30 GMT -6
Ken, if you have the least bit of interest in those tractors and perhaps have children who could be interested in them, there is little sense in getting rid of them as they have a history on your farm beyond just the model of a tractor. I don't expect an older tractor like those to bring huge dollars unless they were a fully restored unit. I don't pay attention to what prices are on equipment like that but certainly admire old tractors that sit in museums of various vintages and some with strange manufacturer names that disappeared long ago.
By the way Biden apparently just announced a huge spending bill that includes installing some half a million charging stations within the next 10 years ( and the tax payer will pay for all of this ) and as well huge tax increases ... reversing the tax breaks that were introduced in the last administration and so on. Not to mention people from other countries with other languages steaming across the southern boarder all willing to take government handouts and further turn the USA and Canada into shithole countries like they more then likely came from. Small business after business permanently closed and the list of people loosing their jobs seems to grow every week according to what I hear in the US of stats of those applying for unemployment.
And the trucks on the road don't seem to be gaining traction with reliability or lowering cost per mile ownership wise, its been a slippery slope ever since the early 2000's and with some engines well before that.
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Post by torriem on Apr 2, 2021 18:42:52 GMT -6
Turbines don't have to be particularly loud. The Chrysler turbine car was actually fairly successful in general, other than the fact that fuel economy was disappointing. One gear ratio handled the full range from stop to highway speed. Sadly weird laws and Chrysler being cheap meant that the prototypes were mostly all destroyed to avoid some kind of taxes (the body was made in Italy and subject to import tariff). Jay Leno has one of the only ones not destroyed in his collection and drives it on occasion. He did a video on it on his youtube channel.
A turbine connected to a electric generator and propulsion could be ideal for big trucks. In fact putting motors on all the axles could be pretty amazing although the regulations would have to change to allow that (regulations that say what a trailer is).
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Post by northernfarmer on Apr 2, 2021 19:13:30 GMT -6
I really wonder what the fuel economy would be for that highway tractor pulling todays loads because when you think about it its actually amazing how good relatively speaking the fuel economy is on a heavy truck compared to a gas pickup trying to pull a fifth wheel or another example is the older gas tandems as 3 mpg is about what they would get and they are hauling far less weight. So its only a shot in the dark to guess that perhaps two things could have been against the turbine, fuel usage was maybe higher and also the cost factor of a turbine engine and rebuilding them is very expensive.
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Post by torriem on Apr 3, 2021 10:45:45 GMT -6
"Gas turbine" doesn't necessarily mean gasoline. Most turbines today operate on kerosene, which is not all that different from diesel. Gas turbines can run on natural gas, or any liquid fuel they are designed for.
It may be costly to rebuild a turbine, but the fact is they have maybe a a tenth the wear of any reciprocating engine. They can run for tens of thousands of hours with little to no wear as there's no vibration.
I think the issue with turbines may be that the fuel economy comes at scale, if at all, or perhaps only if you factor in time and speed, so it might not be there for a heavy truck.
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Post by northernfarmer on Apr 3, 2021 12:24:12 GMT -6
I chuckle at my wording now as indeed I talked about gas engines and made it sound like the turbine was using gasoline which I didn't intend to make it out to be. I didn't see anything in the article or video to indicate what they were burning but from a logistics standpoint I would guess diesel would have been the most logical fuel since that is what was and still is available all along the same road system other vehicles use.
I don't know what the fuel per hp comparability would be between a diesel engine and a turbine using the same fuel, I imagine such information exists. Years ago when working for a bit for an oil field company that at the time used turbine engines for running frac pumps, they could pack a lot of power into a small package. The problem was the expense of those engines and for example one truck rolled over on a road and automatically they were mandated to send the engine down to a shop that was capable of tearing it all down and examining it due to any potential of it having been stressed as the truck tumbled even though the engine was not running at the time of the accident. That is over 30 years ago and the trucks were probably 10 years old then and still the replacement value on one of those body job trucks rigged up as it was, one million. And those trucks were equipped with used engines taken out of service from an original application rather then newly purchased engines. I have forgotten the stats now, I thought about 1350 hydraulic hp and they used about 110 gallons an hour at full load.
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Post by torriem on Apr 3, 2021 12:54:38 GMT -6
Yeah spinning at 20,000 rpm or more requires tight tolerances! And if the housing was damaged and a turbine blade hit it and was expelled, that could be bad. Lots of variables that doubtlessly contributed to the ultimate demise of the turbine car and turbine truck projects.
In general I'm surprised how little cross-pollination occurs between the automotive, heavy truck, and ag sectors. Like why aren't heavy trucks using CVTs? The HP and torque requirements have been met. Why don't car makers learn from how Ag machines do steering, braking, and transmission control? Car makers are hesitant to separate the steering wheel physically from the actual wheels (relying on hydraulic and electric), whereas ag has been doing it for decades. Trucks are reliable, but why not experiment with new braking technologies? I dislike Musk intensely but at least he's pushing back a bit to try out some new things for once, even if they don't pan out.
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Post by northernfarmer on Apr 3, 2021 20:11:27 GMT -6
Some of these inventions come along and then disappear without an explanation that the general public will hear. In the case of this truck it seems they sold it or I assume so and yet if it was a one of a kind you would think they would hang onto it or like the Avro destroy it to hide secrets or their failures.
I don't know what to say about CVT transmissions in tractors as I have had nothing to do with a tractor that has one but have been around a few vehicles that have them and those are very questionable as in reliability is not all that great, and not good at all if towing from what I understand. Of course that is probably more about the engineering of the unit rather then the principle. Steering, perhaps and only a guess that the safety factor may come into play if anything went wrong as that mechanical connection isn't there and so all steering is lost as the speeds are much increased over a tractor that spends most of its time in a field. Also cost of production, if they can make something relatively cheap and get a good profit margin out of it such as brakes for example vs introducing an enclose wet brake system that isn't affected by corrosion ( just using that as an example as I have no idea if such a system could handle constant braking without a major failure ). And again with the CVT vs the automatic, they have kept on the automatic track instead and ever increased the amount of gearing as it was three speeds for years, then the four speed overdrive which really was a leap, then the 5/6 speed era, then 8, and now 10 speed.
And there is another aspect which again we don't know and that is what has been invented and kept off the market, instead building similar products to saturate the market and with great markups and come out with new technology when they feel the time is right or to keep up to other manufactures.
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Post by northernfarmer on Apr 4, 2021 18:19:32 GMT -6
Torriem, you will find this interesting as these articles get into more detail about the truck and how it came to be in private ownership and the turbine engine concept although I have not read much of the second link though. In the first link down the page a ways you will see three old looking book pages laid out, open them up and you get some specs for the truck. I gather from the article that it was a 5 speed Allison they were using.
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Post by Albertabuck on Apr 4, 2021 18:36:19 GMT -6
Those articles have certainly stirred things up again with Big Red, been all over twitter last while.
Would have to spend some time to do so, but somewhere I have the 1960s Farm Quarterly that had a lengthy article about Big Red back when it was new. Thats how I have known that truck existed back when I was a kid lol
If there is enough interest, I might be convinced to locate those magazines and see if I could scan that original article and post it.
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Post by generalchaos on Apr 5, 2021 11:50:28 GMT -6
I read the biography of R.G. LeTourneau. He was a pioneer of moving dirt.
No sound on video. Diesel-electric. He strapped big generators on the flywheel of the motors and generated electricity which drove motors in the hub of the wheel. The electric wheel was likely his greatest invention.
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Post by generalchaos on Apr 5, 2021 11:59:18 GMT -6
And if that video grabbed your onion, here is a longer one.
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Post by northernfarmer on Apr 5, 2021 15:22:53 GMT -6
Years ago at P&G in Grande Prairie ( sold to another company long time ago ) they used Letourneau log stackers to unload the log trucks and back then they were five axle truck/pole trailer units and the loader unloaded the whole load in one motion. The units were pretty big and diesel electric and in fact that unit had no steering wheel at all as it was a toggle switch ran by the pinky finger that controlled steering as far as I recall as the steering would have been an electric motor on a huge curved rack and pinion setup at the pivot point. Due to the electric power I think they ran 500 watt halogen bulb housed lights ( a much better housing then the crap on light stands from china ! ) . I don't know if they still exist as ornaments at that pulp and lumber mill or not as its a long time ago they put in the two huge overhead crane systems.
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Post by northernfarmer on Apr 5, 2021 23:01:48 GMT -6
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Post by northernfarmer on Apr 7, 2021 23:03:52 GMT -6
This has farm relevance in a sense
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Post by northernfarmer on Apr 8, 2021 20:33:37 GMT -6
Building The Golden Gate Bridge
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