rf928
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Post by rf928 on Oct 2, 2020 19:00:44 GMT -6
Ran into some incredibly difficult threshing CPS wheat this season - by far tougher than normal. Can not for the life of me get the unthrashed heads out of the tank.
This is a 2015 760 stock internals. ITS Bars, pre-concave plate, smooth grates (keystock were worse) disawning doors closed.
Finally ran with cemos shut off.
Cylinder 920 (yes it is cracking, not terribly though)
Concave closed (7mm)
Fan 1250
Upper 14
Lower 4
Rotors full speed (1000)
Covers open
Finally have a clean sample I am fairly pleased with. We always seem to have slight unthreshed heads and cracks (makes zero sense) but running those settings I am cut down to 1000-1100bu/hr. This is running about 80bu. Yesterday was a better field In the 95+ range and I could run auto cleaning and max out about 1600bu with a reasonable but still unhappy sample maintaining 0.5bu loss (bushel plus.)
I have read almost every thread on the old forum and it always seems like the limitation for these machines is rotor loss. That is very rarely the case with us - I am almost always limited by shoe loss. Naturally the next step is to close the rotor covers. This almost instantly resulted in a dirtier sample, again with unthreshed heads. Keep in mind we grow incredible volumes of straw. Baled this wheat and netted 5 bales/acre.
This leads me to believe the rotors need to be wide open, doors open to get those heads out. This approach bottlenecks the cleaning system. If I open the sieve at all it instantly dirties the sample again.
So is that it for capacity? And is there another step that would help - sunnybrook/high speed rotors - when limited by shoe? Barley worked flawless and I haven’t hit canola yet but it appears everything is extremely difficult to thresh this season. I figured I’d throw my thinking out there, anyone might find it useful or if I am horrendously in left field someone would have better ideas.
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gav
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Post by gav on Oct 2, 2020 20:26:20 GMT -6
Are threshing segment installed? When u tried key stock aps did that make unthrashed heads smaller? 4 seems closed to much for lower sieve, are u sure that’s actual? Have u checked concave for level & its actual clearance? Is the pressure on gauge for concave correct?
What’s the mog moist or dry & brittle?
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Post by victory on Oct 2, 2020 21:41:07 GMT -6
I had tough threshing HRS too this season. I would put some filler strips in the front part of the concave. Threshing should be happening in the concave.
What volume are you getting in the returns and what does it consist of?
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rf928
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Post by rf928 on Oct 2, 2020 21:50:05 GMT -6
Are threshing segment installed? When u tried key stock aps did that make unthrashed heads smaller? 4 seems closed to much for lower sieve, are u sure that’s actual? Have u checked concave for level & its actual clearance? Is the pressure on gauge for concave correct? What’s the mog moist or dry & brittle? Threshing segment installed yes. Keystock heads made unthreshed heads smaller and there were many more of them. Trade off on smooth was less breakage and slightly cleaner. Honestly it was a slight difference but I stuck with smooth. Concave clearance and level was checked ~90 hrs ago by Claas, pressure is correct. Mog is bone dry brittle during day, gets slightly damp at night but combine performance remains unchanged. Watched neighbours S680’s shut down and go home because they could not thresh it. Beginning to think there isn’t an answer and it is what is due to conditions. Ran things tight enough to clean sample and threw 2bu out back @2.4mph 35’ I had tough threshing HRS too this season. I would put some filler strips in the front part of the concave. Threshing should be happening in the concave.
What volume are you getting in the returns and what does it consist of? I looked in there yesterday and there were 3 strips already installed. This machine was new to us last season after running Deere so that is all somewhat new to me but I believe it is currently configured as aggressive as it can be. Returns limit set to 80% and I usually try to keep it 1/2-2/3 up the auger flighting in the window. Returns is about 50/50 mog/grain. |
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gav
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Post by gav on Oct 2, 2020 23:03:03 GMT -6
I agree with what victory says as it needs to be thrashed up front. I remember reading on old cf that one chap used to adjust up the sps clearance much tighter the book specs, I suppose that may help some, what size are your aps grates?
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Post by SWMan on Oct 3, 2020 22:36:27 GMT -6
My guess is the concave needs to be tighter at the rear. 7MM front and 4MM rear is spec, but I now ask the tech to go 2MM at rear. This will help with threshing and forces it through the concave so should help with rotor loss.
Also have you panned it to isolate where loss comes from? Seems to me that cemos and in general the loss monitors are biased towards keeping sieve loss down. By this I mean that running the same sensitivity on both rotor and sieve you will be getting much more rotor loss at the same reading. I usually ran higher sensitivity on the rotor as a result, because the losses can really spike out of the rotor.
Rub bars in good condition?
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rf928
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Post by rf928 on Oct 5, 2020 8:08:28 GMT -6
My guess is the concave needs to be tighter at the rear. 7MM front and 4MM rear is spec, but I now ask the tech to go 2MM at rear. This will help with threshing and forces it through the concave so should help with rotor loss. Also have you panned it to isolate where loss comes from? Seems to me that cemos and in general the loss monitors are biased towards keeping sieve loss down. By this I mean that running the same sensitivity on both rotor and sieve you will be getting much more rotor loss at the same reading. I usually ran higher sensitivity on the rotor as a result, because the losses can really spike out of the rotor. Rub bars in good condition? This makes sense SWMan, I might ask them to do this post season. I hope we don’t run into that for a while - if we had a frost it would’ve helped. Isolated that most of the loss came from the cleaning system. However by coincidence I discovered what you mean by more rotor loss. I had sensitivity at 83 on both and the cleaning loss at the line was at 0.5bu/acre. However if there was any rotor loss at all then it showed an exponential increase in grain out the back. What kind of spread do you run the sensitivity compared to the shoe? +10? Thank you guys for the replies, I think it just came down to extremely tough to thresh and we had to slow down to grind it out, but I learned for next season. Yesterday was consumed with learning how to unplug the cylinder, sucked in a wad of driven on swathed green oats and came to a smoking halt. |
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Post by meskie on Oct 5, 2020 9:32:23 GMT -6
The best thing to clean out the cylinder with is a pull rod To unlatch a truck fifth wheel. You can reach in the side and pull stuff out.
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Post by SWMan on Oct 5, 2020 18:10:00 GMT -6
I usually ran 85 on rotor for sensitivity and 75 or 80 on sieve. I do know guys that ran 60 on the sieve and have a lot of pan tests to show that loss doesn't go crazy even at that level. I think you could go lower and when the bad weather was coming last fall we dropped some pans and sped up a fair bit. I'm normally pretty fussy about grain loss these days, probably more than most.
Meskie that's a good idea, hopefully I never get to use that...ha ha
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rf928
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Post by rf928 on Oct 7, 2020 18:51:53 GMT -6
I usually ran 85 on rotor for sensitivity and 75 or 80 on sieve. I do know guys that ran 60 on the sieve and have a lot of pan tests to show that loss doesn't go crazy even at that level. I think you could go lower and when the bad weather was coming last fall we dropped some pans and sped up a fair bit. I'm normally pretty fussy about grain loss these days, probably more than most. Meskie that's a good idea, hopefully I never get to use that...ha ha Good to know, I will keep that in mind. Unplug went real smooth, bolted cylinder in low range, disengaged impeller and slug came out the front very smoothly. Back to my tough wheat threshing. Aside from concave closed and cylinder sped into the 900+ range, there really isn’t much else to do for curing the unthreshed heads in the tank? |
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Post by SWMan on Oct 8, 2020 6:58:52 GMT -6
Back to my tough wheat threshing. Aside from concave closed and cylinder sped into the 900+ range, there really isn’t much else to do for curing the unthreshed heads in the tank? Close bottom sieve until they are forced into the return. |
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Post by LexionSince99 on Oct 10, 2020 7:54:23 GMT -6
First post on new forum
This was the hardest wheat thrashing year i can remember in my area(edmonton). It was also the wettest spring/summer I can remember. Tried everything to get heads thrashed properly and whitecaps out of sample, no luck. After realizing every field of Viewfield was going to be the same, we settled on this for settings. Tweeked a little here and there with mornings, heat of the day, evenings. Also was one of the poorest yielding wheat crops grown in many years, just to wet. Looked way better being a road farmer, more like avg yields. Straw was avg, but wheat yield well below. Lexions like material to help thrash which was also part of the problem. As we had lots of drowned out areas and the areas leading up to Zero yielding spots were thin, hence not much material. But even the nice straw areas we couldn’t thrash and clean to my standards (and Lexion standards).
Two 780TT’s (stock guts)
Cyl 900 (fastest ever ran in wheat)
ITS in
APS key stock small
Disawning closed, open didn’t make sample or return limit worse.
Concave 7MM
Upper 12-15mm
Lower 5-6mm which is just under 100% full
Fan 1000ish
calibrated sensors (return limit, sieves) a few times hoping something was slightly off.
Cemos Cleaning off. If left on she wanted to open lower sieve because of the high return rates, that resulted in dirty sample.
Cemos Seperation on for the most part. She ran the rotors pretty much full speed and open and closed flaps as needed. Rotor loss was good.
For the most part grain losses rotors and sieve never an issue.
Return was full all day long, I ended up moving the standard 75% flashing triangle to 98% so wouldn’t have to look at it all day. I think we only two return plugs over 2400ac wheat.
Still unhappy after couple days. Last thing was tighten concave and double check level. Went with front of concave around 4mm and back not quite touching. Helped a little but still sucked for my taste lol
Also tried moving filer strips back a couple to fill larger wire instead of smaller on one machine, no noticeable difference.
Spoke with a few neighbours all running other colour’s and same issue. Could visually see neighbours truck sitting road side with lots of heads and whitecaps, same as us.
At the end of the day (wheat harvest) Mother Nature one - Lexion Since 99 zero.
99
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Post by SWMan on Oct 10, 2020 9:12:31 GMT -6
Welcome to the forum LexionSince99! That sounds like a similar story all over, but look into the viewfield because it seems to have failed pretty bad this year from some bacterial blight or something. You might want to look into switching varieties. Perhaps a neighbor has experience with different varieties and how they did this year?
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Post by victory on Oct 10, 2020 10:07:09 GMT -6
I had exactly the same experience LexionSince99, except not near as many acres to experiment with. Did you have other varieties too?
Our farm is an hour an a half northwest of Edmonton.
Normally I can get wheat very clean with my 480.
Still wondering if the poor threshing was from the top or the bottom of the head, or just at random. Have a feeling that it just had to do with the weather conditions this year.
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