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Post by kevlar on Nov 22, 2023 16:44:32 GMT -6
We have a row of 6 4000 bushel hopper bins that have been sitting on gravel now for about 20 years, in all that time only one has ever had to be releveled but they have all sunk a good 10 inches. Our plan for next year is to put them on a cement pad next summer, and plan to just leave the skids on them to give us enough room for a tub for a 10 inch auger. What’s the best way to build the pad? Seems hard to get all 6 empty at the same time so was thinking of doing two at a time on their own pad, or would it be better with 3 on a pad or one big one for all 6? Or would that be more prone to cracking? Run footings around the perimeter and one down the centre or just one thick slab? Or would it need some kind of footing all the way around under the skid?
I’m pretty sure there’s someone here that knows more about this than I do!
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Post by meskie on Nov 22, 2023 16:53:50 GMT -6
Guys around here that put up pads for hoppers make them round with a thickened edge mono slab. Similar to what would get done for a big flat.
No idea what would be the easiest and most cost effective way to do it. You need a lot of extra cement if your pouring it square and big enough for 2 or 3 bins.
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Post by Oatking on Nov 22, 2023 21:11:00 GMT -6
We have a row of 6 4000 bushel hopper bins that have been sitting on gravel now for about 20 years, in all that time only one has ever had to be releveled but they have all sunk a good 10 inches. Our plan for next year is to put them on a cement pad next summer, and plan to just leave the skids on them to give us enough room for a tub for a 10 inch auger. What’s the best way to build the pad? Seems hard to get all 6 empty at the same time so was thinking of doing two at a time on their own pad, or would it be better with 3 on a pad or one big one for all 6? Or would that be more prone to cracking? Run footings around the perimeter and one down the centre or just one thick slab? Or would it need some kind of footing all the way around under the skid? I’m pretty sure there’s someone here that knows more about this than I do! Kevlar , unbolt the skids . I have a few 5300 bu meridians I bought with skids . They are on concrete now but are a real pain to keep the pad nest and tidy . Sometimes crop will start growing between cracks between the skids. I plan to lift them up next summer and unbolt them and try to sell the triple skid . Best to sell the skids. Skids are expensive. I would go one long pad and then put concrete cuts between hopper bins. Minimum thickness I used on my pads was 14 inch. Most are 18 inches thick. I guess the psi is important to consider on hopper pads.
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Post by kevlar on Nov 22, 2023 21:23:34 GMT -6
We have a row of 6 4000 bushel hopper bins that have been sitting on gravel now for about 20 years, in all that time only one has ever had to be releveled but they have all sunk a good 10 inches. Our plan for next year is to put them on a cement pad next summer, and plan to just leave the skids on them to give us enough room for a tub for a 10 inch auger. What’s the best way to build the pad? Seems hard to get all 6 empty at the same time so was thinking of doing two at a time on their own pad, or would it be better with 3 on a pad or one big one for all 6? Or would that be more prone to cracking? Run footings around the perimeter and one down the centre or just one thick slab? Or would it need some kind of footing all the way around under the skid? I’m pretty sure there’s someone here that knows more about this than I do! Kevlar , unbolt the skids . I have a few 5300 bu meridians I bought with skids . They are on concrete now but are a real pain to keep the pad nest and tidy . Sometimes crop will start growing between cracks between the skids. I plan to lift them up next summer and unbolt them and try to sell the triple skid . Best to sell the skids. Skids are expensive. I would go one long pad and then put concrete cuts between hopper bins. Minimum thickness I used on my pads was 14 inch. Most are 18 inches thick. I guess the psi is important to consider on hopper pads. Would you not need to put piles under each leg then without the skid? It would be pretty tight to get our 10 inch auger and tub under it without the skid I would think. I think I’d like to keep it solid between bins instead of going round just for the sake of keeping it clean and I seem to walk through the bins quite often so think for a tripping hazard a big slab is best. These bins always look so messy sitting on gravel, can’t clean up spilt grain and never seem to have enough time to keep it sprayed out.
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Post by OptimallyDismal on Nov 22, 2023 21:38:57 GMT -6
My concrete guy told me to block the corners off with diagonal boards, you don't need square corners and you save a yard of concrete! So my 4 bin pad is square corners (because he shared this idea when he showed up with the cement truck) and the 2 bin pad has the angled corners, I like the 2 bin pad better. I have never cut my pads, but I have 1200 and 1500bu bins on them, they didn't have skids. We also nave never used piles on anything, never seen them used around here.
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Post by Oatking on Nov 22, 2023 22:35:29 GMT -6
That would depend on your soil conditions . I have never put any piles on my bins. So far after 20 plus years it’s good . Just one bin needs levelling because it was built over an old pond . I do put a thick layer of two inch limestone as a base .
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Post by Oatking on Nov 22, 2023 22:41:42 GMT -6
this is the older bin row. Here I only did circle pads. I prefer the rectangular pad on my other bin rows . Same reason as you Kevlar . I like to walk along or in between . Easier to keep clean and mowing is easier .
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Post by victory on Nov 22, 2023 23:10:14 GMT -6
The pad will have to be thicker if you remove the skids. It will also be more prone to cracking with no skids because the weight is much more concentrated on certain spots. Clean up is not that much more difficult with skids on. A straight pad is nice to walk on and clean up, but also more expensive. You have to decide what is most important.
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Post by kenmb on Nov 23, 2023 10:13:32 GMT -6
Been a long time since I had a bin assembly manual in my hand but they used to have directions on what is needed for various foundations. Twister bins for sure had this info.
You can do a round bin pad and then pour 4 inches of concrete later to fill in the areas to make rectangle. Depends how much money you want to spend to control weeds. That extra concrete is expensive weed control.
The old bins have the round bin pads and then concrete poured after to fill in. It's nice to have but I also don't mind the gravel. I spray the gravel probably twice a year, maybe 3 times. I admit I often put off putting on the backpack sprayer but it eventually gets done, those electric hand held sprayers like Milwaukee has and others look like a neat idea to make things that much easier. As for grain under the chute a sheet of old plywood works well, one day i should bolt together two sheets into a 8x8 pad and that should make clean up about 90% equal to full concrete.
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radar
Junior Member
Posts: 61 Likes: 33
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Post by radar on Nov 23, 2023 13:30:30 GMT -6
We have 19-8 westeel bins on hoppers and found that the bins with skids are good on 6 inches of concrete.. We also have 5 of those bins without skids ,the rebar, the work involved getting the 1 inch rebar bent in a circle, and hiring a pumper truck,was to costly..6 inches of concrete we can do ourselves and these ones with skid are better, there is at least 36000 lbs on each leg, the skids just made more sense ,, Now we've put the next ones on rig mats and think that allows us to move them if we want, and someday we can sell all of it ...No resale on 44 by 90 ft concrete pad.
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Post by victory on Nov 23, 2023 18:55:50 GMT -6
Hey radar, you must have a very good base under that 6" of concrete. I wouldn't go that thin.
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Post by kevlar on Nov 23, 2023 19:32:17 GMT -6
6 inches doesn’t seem like much, I think we put a minimum of 8 inches in our shop floor.
I agree with radar, if you have to hire equipment or people to make round pads, I’d rather be able to do the work myself and put the money saved into more cement and make it square. Concrete work is about some of the hardest work there is!
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jvdl
New Member
Posts: 45 Likes: 12
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Post by jvdl on Nov 23, 2023 21:03:08 GMT -6
Have westeel 19-8 on hoppers no skids on 5 inch concrete floating slab, been there for sometime and looks like it will be there for a long time yet, can’t recall the exact rebar spacing, I feel like a lot of you guys are way overkill on the concrete
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Post by kevlar on Nov 23, 2023 22:05:40 GMT -6
I’m just kind of thinking along the lines of the 10,000 flat bins we put up a few years ago, can’t remember exactly all the specs but believe that the outside ring was about 16 inches thick and the centre was roughly 5-6 inches, and that was following Westeel’s build specs. Now it makes me wonder if insurance would have a say in something like this? If a bin toppled over and they came out and seen it was sitting on 5 inches of cement, would they say that wasn’t good enough? Even the footings for a house calls for about 10 inches roughly and has next to nothing for weight on it.
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Post by northernfarmer on Nov 23, 2023 22:30:29 GMT -6
I am sure that the packed base that is created for the pad as well as the sub soil structure and typical moisture content of the area all factor into what will work or what will fail due to being under engineered for the ground condition. Like you said Kevlar, your existing bins have sunk considerably, that to me doesn't give a lot of confidence for a wimpy thin built pad being able to stand up to your conditions. Of course that is my point of view and when one looks at flat bottom bins and how the grain weight is spread fairly equally across the whole pad, that is completely different from the extreme pin point loads under each leg of a hopper sitting on concrete without a steel base ring.
Here is something I had forgotten all about that was posted years back on the other forum, now how well their precast system has stood up is a good question but back when they posted that info was when they first got started in their business. Their website doesn't explain this but the inner diameter of the precast form is hollow underneath from what he had explained so that the units main structure base is the first few feet on the outer diameter and the inner portion can sink quite a few inches before it would begin to contact the ground. He mentioned that a poured base would be load bearing all across and put forces on the center of the pad. I guess that goes back to having a thick pad with lots of large rebar to make a hell of a strong structure of one is pouring a full one piece pad.
Here is that outfits website and the page which talks about the sizes of precast pad they are able to make. Kevlar, it would be interesting if you had a conversation with them just for the hell of it to price out a large enough system for your size of bin, what your prior bins have done in sinking to give them a feel for your ground conditions, to find out the specs of the pad in question as per the cement thickness in the load bearing area and the hollow area, the size of rebar they put in and the cement mix strength, if they see an advantage to leaving the steel base on the hoppers etc, insurance issues as you pointed out and of course "how much"
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