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Post by kenmb on Jan 26, 2022 8:15:16 GMT -6
That line that is often said about no more land is being made, is a bunch of crap. Looking forward it does not matter how much more is being made, all that matters is how much is for sale. And there is land always for sale therefore no more being made is irrelevant.
If land is always for sale then the real point of discussion is whether or not the price is reasonable. And that is what changes in farming. As I have said often enough, land here is early 2000 was not selling. Infact little was for sale because it wasn't selling so the price was so low it was going no-sale. Rented for cost of taxes.
Yet 20 years later people suddenly realize "hey, no more land is being made" and now people trip over themselves to get land.
Think long and hard about what I said there because this is real life.
What matters is the facts. If people are buying land simply because inflation and cheap debt say so and that is because there is no more land being bought then one needs to reconcile that with the idea that people will not buy something that won't generate enough return to even pay the taxes.
And what that means is sorting out the truth of what makes sense in an inflationary environment vs deflationary. 1985 to 2005 were deflationary for land. Here it was anyway.
So belly up to the table in the casino and place your bets. Will land continue to be inflationary for a decade or two or three. Or will it become deflationary. I don't know. But rest assured you are placing a bet in a casino with whichever side you pick.
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BJT
Full Member
Posts: 111 Likes: 41
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Post by BJT on Jan 26, 2022 10:23:04 GMT -6
Appears bidders yesterday gambled on inflationary. Check out RB land auction.
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Post by slipclutch on Jan 26, 2022 11:50:39 GMT -6
Yeah. I don’t know where all this land shit is going. People are stupid people are crazy.
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Post by farmshop on Jan 26, 2022 21:23:40 GMT -6
We are in southern Minnesota. We are close enough to the big city that every time they push outwards we get displaced farmers with fistful’s of cash looking for new land to buy
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Post by northernfarmer on Jan 26, 2022 22:05:57 GMT -6
We are in southern Minnesota. We are close enough to the big city that every time they push outwards we get displaced farmers with fistful’s of cash looking for new land to buy I've forgotten now as I think I had some idea before, do you recall where the Millennial farmer is located in Minnesota assuming you have ever run across his youtube channel. And as to putting a location on you're profile, feel free to put whatever wording you like as it could simply be "southern Minnesota" or some town in the area along with the name of the state as it certainly helps us ( meaning myself ! ) forgetful people or new members to have a clue where various ones are located. For some reason I was thinking you were in Manitoba, I was only off by one country LOL.
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Post by kenmb on Jan 27, 2022 9:46:41 GMT -6
Could very well be increasing inflation. It is a bet, plain and simple. Problem I see now, and as I understand our system better, is that government is going to keep taking more away. So even if the bet on inflationary for another decade does prove right then I suspect most of those gains will be taken by the government as time goes on. Our capital gains exemption is something that is set by government and can therefore be changed in short order. Also there is taxes. And of course we have the national debt and the economy due to "covid". Interestingly enough, increasing the capital gains exemption does aid in driving asset prices. Yes, it is valid and should be increased. But what the government giveth, the government can taketh away. The big picture is to consider that the idea of capital gains exemption even exists. Our system is built on fiat and debt/money printing and thus inflation. Too bad no one told me this 15 years ago, I would have done things differently. No expert on tv said anything about this in regards to protecting or growing my wealth. I was told of 1 to 2% inflation based on strength of an economy. That is 100% BS but that is what we were told all our lives.
I would feel much differently if land was something traded like a stock - buy in and sell in a couple years as market shifts. Or hold. Let the market decide. Under that scenario I would say buy, you can always get out with a small loss if the market turns. From a farmer standpoint it is a totally different situation. It is usually long term. And the investor type leads to large run up in prices but also a rapid collapse if a bunch of investor types are involved because in that case, they tend to all get out at the same time.
So I suppose I would need to consider if I am dealing with an investor type land owner or a farmer type. Because, for valid reasons, they may have two very different views.
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Post by Oatking on Jan 27, 2022 16:40:27 GMT -6
I suppose another issue is the value of the Canadian dollar to U.S dollar. In recent times we have been stuck in the 70-80 cent range. It is prudent to think what if our dollar hit par or higher against the U.S or The Euro dollar. If our dollar collapsed to .40 cents how would that impact our land value. Since Land is usually a 20-25 year investment any number of economic changes can have a huge impact from what we currently feel is too much or too little in value.
The debate of a low canadian dollar for grain prices has been viewed positively and negatively.
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Post by farmshop on Jan 28, 2022 22:18:09 GMT -6
We are in southern Minnesota. We are close enough to the big city that every time they push outwards we get displaced farmers with fistful’s of cash looking for new land to buy I've forgotten now as I think I had some idea before, do you recall where the Millennial farmer is located in Minnesota assuming you have ever run across his youtube channel. And as to putting a location on you're profile, feel free to put whatever wording you like as it could simply be "southern Minnesota" or some town in the area along with the name of the state as it certainly helps us ( meaning myself ! ) forgetful people or new members to have a clue where various ones are located. For some reason I was thinking you were in Manitoba, I was only off by one country LOL. He is about 4 hours north west of us
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Post by rod on Feb 4, 2022 1:25:43 GMT -6
…..Inflation and cheap debt has taken land values way further than I would have ever guessed. Seems like a weird business model to borrow against inflated and illogical land values, if there was a crash some people would be pretty exposed I would think. Same thing has happened in OZ. The $ earning capability of the land is in no way reflected in the price paid for land. Something has to give in this. I’m old enough to remember 18-24% interest rates & $60/tonne for barley in the late ‘80’s & ‘90’s. And that’s not 1880’s or 1890’s either! 😉 So why won’t this type of thing happen again ? It’s happened many times previously ……. Surely it’s just a matter of “when” …… not “if” ?
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Post by Oatking on Mar 18, 2022 17:37:47 GMT -6
Saw an article the other day saying land in Iowa is up almost 20 percent over last year. The article was asking if this increase in price is sustainable. It seems we always say this every year but the demand for acres seems to win out over laying back and saying enough is enough. If we are just at the beginning of inflation who is to say we are at the limit it or soon? I know in my neighbourhood land has gone up about 1500 an acre for river lots and you would be lucky to find one for sale to begin with.
Its interesting, my mother and father inlaw are selling there house in Winnipeg. There real estate agent said due to low supply people are bidding 80,000 over asking price on a half million dollar home.
Not sure how this will end! I know 2007-08 was the last real big step up in land values. Is this post covid , inflation era the next big leap in land values? Hard to digest anything higher eh?
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Post by cptusa on Mar 18, 2022 20:33:57 GMT -6
Article is wrong. Iowa land is 30-50% higher.
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Post by Oatking on Mar 19, 2022 8:13:10 GMT -6
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