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Post by SWMan on Feb 28, 2021 9:02:37 GMT -6
AB nobody's stuff is worth killing someone over, Carlos was exactly right. I can't imagine having to live with the fact that I had killed someone and could it be done differently??? If you want to get tough with someone try the idiots in government who don't enforce the laws on the books already, they enable all this never-ending crime. I agree criminals shouldn't have rights after they are properly convicted, and the punishment needs to be harsh enough to stop the repeat offenses. I think we all agree that when people's lives are threatened it becomes different. I pray I never have to make that decision... Everyone is welcome to their opinions, no worries, nor take anything personally either, I am speaking in broad sense about matters, and with that said, you are saying that no property is worth killing someone over, so that translates into, you believe the criminal should have the right to take whatever from a property owner with no initial recourse, K, thats actually a very common belief among a lot of people. But then you go on to say that people like me who don't agree, should channel our efforts into changing the laws and positions of government regarding the same said issues and criminals....only problem is Swman, its folks with the same beliefs as you who elected the gov officials in the first place who put criminals rights over those of property owners....see to look at it another way, interpreting what I have said clearly shows I support Gerald Stanley, your comments seem to indicate you think Colton Boushie's rights got violated because he got blown away for theft and more...the reality of it all is, rural theft is the issue it is simply because of what modern society dictates, how dare a property owner defend their property. And thats why we have no rights to protect out property same as for example how the Captain can a mere few hundred miles south of us across a border. When did this become about Gerald Stanley, he was under attack which is a different scenario than what this thread was started for. The thread is titled theft not assault or attempted murder. And you should refrain from translating what I say, because you aren't doing so very well. It's been said on here and probably isn't far from the truth that these hardened criminals value our property more than our lives, so why would one engage with someone who is in the process of stealing your "stuff"? Maybe from afar by flicking lights or sirens or something, but walking into a scenario alone with a handgun probably has a high possibility to end badly for everyone. So I will clarify my thoughts a little more, hoping they make sense: -Since theft is the topic assume that individual is a first time offender, why would they be stealing? Maybe they are trying to put food on the table or just made a really bad decision, maybe in this scenario they might repent or repay what they did eventually(even without your knowledge). To jump in a judge/jury/executioner would only serve to make them and possibly yourself into a real criminal. -Now for the repeat offender, this would be the far more likely scenario. Seems like most of these guys have either been through the system or are known to police. So where is the breakdown in the system? I am pretty sure it's not on your farm, it belongs with the police/RCMP/court system. So you decide to get involved in the situation where someone is stealing your stuff and something happens, you now enter the broken system that places criminal rights over personal/property rights.......is that where you want to be??? So my thinking is that I am better put my effort into lobbying the broken system to put the emphasis back on personal/property rights, and have spent a considerable amount of time doing so in my adult life. Unfortunately we live in a broken world and we appear to be losing that battle. That's my opinion, you are entitled to yours. Neither of us agree with the way the justice system operates now, that should be clear. |
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Post by kevlar on Feb 28, 2021 9:35:31 GMT -6
My biggest concern with the thefts now is the reasons behind it and the type of criminal doing it. When I was a kid and, and really even up to 10-15 years ago, the only real thefts were some gas and batteries off equipment, the odd time an atv or vehicle got stolen usually ended up being someone who was drunk and needed a ride home, and most likely a friend. The people stealing the gas and batteries were mostly local kids who for the most part were pretty harmless. Now fast forward to current times. The criminals have mostly become dangerous criminals with a violent past and motives are drug related, when someone who enters your property high on Meth, anything becomes possible. In my area, it turned out to be a fairly large, sophisticated crime ring doing most of the theft. Fortunately, the "leader" of their community has been working hard to put a stop to the organization, and so far seems to be working fairly well.
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Post by Albertabuck on Feb 28, 2021 9:50:45 GMT -6
Everyone is welcome to their opinions, no worries, nor take anything personally either, I am speaking in broad sense about matters, and with that said, you are saying that no property is worth killing someone over, so that translates into, you believe the criminal should have the right to take whatever from a property owner with no initial recourse, K, thats actually a very common belief among a lot of people. But then you go on to say that people like me who don't agree, should channel our efforts into changing the laws and positions of government regarding the same said issues and criminals....only problem is Swman, its folks with the same beliefs as you who elected the gov officials in the first place who put criminals rights over those of property owners....see to look at it another way, interpreting what I have said clearly shows I support Gerald Stanley, your comments seem to indicate you think Colton Boushie's rights got violated because he got blown away for theft and more...the reality of it all is, rural theft is the issue it is simply because of what modern society dictates, how dare a property owner defend their property. And thats why we have no rights to protect out property same as for example how the Captain can a mere few hundred miles south of us across a border. When did this become about Gerald Stanley, he was under attack which is a different scenario than what this thread was started for. The thread is titled theft not assault or attempted murder. And you should refrain from translating what I say, because you aren't doing so very well. It's been said on here and probably isn't far from the truth that these hardened criminals value our property more than our lives, so why would one engage with someone who is in the process of stealing your "stuff"? Maybe from afar by flicking lights or sirens or something, but walking into a scenario alone with a handgun probably has a high possibility to end badly for everyone. So I will clarify my thoughts a little more, hoping they make sense: -Since theft is the topic assume that individual is a first time offender, why would they be stealing? Maybe they are trying to put food on the table or just made a really bad decision, maybe in this scenario they might repent or repay what they did eventually(even without your knowledge). To jump in a judge/jury/executioner would only serve to make them and possibly yourself into a real criminal. -Now for the repeat offender, this would be the far more likely scenario. Seems like most of these guys have either been through the system or are known to police. So where is the breakdown in the system? I am pretty sure it's not on your farm, it belongs with the police/RCMP/court system. So you decide to get involved in the situation where someone is stealing your stuff and something happens, you now enter the broken system that places criminal rights over personal/property rights.......is that where you want to be??? So my thinking is that I am better put my effort into lobbying the broken system to put the emphasis back on personal/property rights, and have spent a considerable amount of time doing so in my adult life. Unfortunately we live in a broken world and we appear to be losing that battle. That's my opinion, you are entitled to yours. Neither of us agree with the way the justice system operates now, that should be clear. The Stanley case originated with Boushie and company looking to steal stuff, I believe someone else had already mentioned its relevance to the topic of property rights, and I felt it was a good way of showing how peoples beliefs translate into real world actions. So that is why I used it as a means of making my point. The rights of a thief to steal end where our right to own property begin...I make no bones about where I draw the line. It is because of people putting the right to steal over the rights to protect property that the theft issue is what it is. And I still stand by my comment, its the people who believe the right to steal trumps the right to protect that our laws are the way they are. Prove me wrong  |
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Post by cptusa on Feb 28, 2021 9:59:45 GMT -6
I think I should probably clarify my position. I'm pretty sure we can all agree that if our lives or family or friends lives are threatened then all means necessary should be used to neutralize the threat. On the inverse side of the coin I don't think anyone here believes that a life should be ended over someone stealing a tank of fuel or some tools or a vehicle.
That all said if someone is on my yard they are going to get confronted. My yard is very well lit but I have the knowledge and capability to stay in the dark areas and get a drop on anyone. I will not do so unarmed. Like I said I'm not going to shoot someone over a tank of fuel, but I also going to be sure they don't leave with it either. If someone was trying to take one of my vehicles I have no problem disabling it and restraining the individual until police arrive, at that point whether they want to be restrained peacefully or not, well it's up to them.
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Post by Albertabuck on Feb 28, 2021 10:05:02 GMT -6
I was reading Kevlar's last post and got to thinking, there is a good possibility there is a reason I am more hard nosed on this issue than many, and that is simply experience.
My old farm was right smack in high density development, dogs chasing cattle was the least of my worries, theft and more was common place. Same with my truck shop in Devon, though things in town weren't quite as bad as on the farm.
After I moved, my instincts and more moved with me. Every acre I own is fenced, gated and watched. Its also why like for example I get along great and work with local Fish and Wildlife cops, we're all the same, lets nail as many of the bastards as we can.
And I have also had the privilege of finding one of the local methheads passed out in the doorway between my kitchen and porch at 3AM after he was desperate to find so warmth after almost freezing to death in -35C while trying to steal. He was here because he was the employee of a peat company that at the time I did a lot of mechanical work for, so he knew it was easy pickings. Long story short, that particular situation ended in the shop after I had dumped 5 gallons of gas into his stolen car, with his feet a foot off the ground bent backwards over the left fender of the 4020 and his nose caved in half way. I will not get into what I prodded him with in my kitchen when I woke him up....he still had enough wits about him, he knew when I said never come back, I meant it.
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Post by northernfarmer on Feb 28, 2021 10:26:42 GMT -6
Lately I read more about the Liberals as it would seem they are going to keep pounding away on trying to get law abiding citizens guns out of their hands and as you well know the common city folk is being brain washed into thinking all guns are bad in the hands of the common citizen and everything should be left up to the police to protect them ... the government to protect them and so on with that theme. So not only are the laws such in Canada that we can't dare use a gun to protect ourselves from bodily harm or stand our ground to prevent property from walking/driving away, they will take that tool away from us so the criminal will know they have nothing to fear from the common citizen ( and farmers included ) as they will have the guns and dictate what they want and just take it knowing the Police are far away in a typical rural setting and will become more brazen than ever. Whatever lobbying and complaining about how our system has gone direction wise has done nothing to change the course of what appears to be happening, so the question is what are we left to do about it if they the government have no interest in listening because they have an agenda to rid the citizen of protecting themselves against a criminal or a criminal government ?
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Post by Beerwiser on Feb 28, 2021 12:35:59 GMT -6
I think I should probably clarify my position. I'm pretty sure we can all agree that if our lives or family or friends lives are threatened then all means necessary should be used to neutralize the threat. On the inverse side of the coin I don't think anyone here believes that a life should be ended over someone stealing a tank of fuel or some tools or a vehicle. That all said if someone is on my yard they are going to get confronted. My yard is very well lit but I have the knowledge and capability to stay in the dark areas and get a drop on anyone. I will not do so unarmed. Like I said I'm not going to shoot someone over a tank of fuel, but I also going to be sure they don't leave with it either. If someone was trying to take one of my vehicles I have no problem disabling it and restraining the individual until police arrive, at that point whether they want to be restrained peacefully or not, well it's up to them. Those are my thoughts exactly. Now the real question is how best to prevent problems in the first place. Stuff like yard lights. I am well lit too, but when I am done for the night they get turned off. No reason to give them light and it gives my 4 large dogs the element of surprise. Maybe leaving them on is a better idea? Not sure. I honestly think that the best thing my neighbors and I do is actively patrol the area. Anyone that is driving 5mph not checking fields will get stopped and asked why they are out here and who they are. Most are okay and mean no harm, usually looking for a place to seed wild oats. There have been two instances of vehicles making a run for it. One didn't last long as the neighbor got a hold of me quickly and I blocked the road from the other end. The look on the guys face was priceless when he knew he was trapped. He learnt his lesson that day and didn't even have to lay a hand on him. The other one got away, but not after a good hour chase. These shit rats hang together, so once word gets around it is usually pretty quiet until a new litter of shit rats is born. |
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Post by Albertabuck on Feb 28, 2021 14:15:19 GMT -6
Actually Beer you gotta watch what you do on public property and roads, technically you have no legal right to stop anyone or impede their travel, even on a go no where road as long as it is open to public. Got educated on that years ago over a undeveloped road allowance.
I would think dogs are good, I need to get a new one.
Having things well lite is a good thing IMO and something I do, it allows you to easily see what is going on from in your house or outside and it is a huge deterrent because they don't like being under a spot light so to speak. And having a reputation of not putting up with crap is huge too with the local ones, the transient ones then it don't come into play. One thing I am seeing more and more is folks putting gates or other barriers across driveways at nite, if they can't get real close, that is a limiter as well. I need to get some more gates up around yard, got three different driveways all a few hundred feet from each other, couple have gates, main one don't yet, but having to open and close gates all the time is a real PITA. Same as with locking the shop and such, (for which I still haven't found a door lock that can be set to a timer), what I am thinking is having that the gates are controlled and close at a preset time. Don't even have to be a gate, just a barrier to stop vehicles, like a pipe ect.
The other thing is you don't advertise what you got nor invite in undesirables. Not sure how many of you remember that mikey350 on the old forum, always was posting videos about all the stuff in their shop, then he posted that vid of him driving home...I think it was like a week later, boom, shop cleaned out...shortly afterwards the kid pulled his social media, I'm guessing he got the memo...
Oh and cameras help, but are not enough to trigger charges or an arrest.
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Post by cptusa on Feb 28, 2021 14:44:29 GMT -6
Lights I think are good but I also wonder if they aren't a bit of an attraction to my place, I'm a mile of a fairly well traveled highway and have 6 yard lights on all night, I wonder if there's not a little bit of let's check that out that goes on here.
Gates won't work for me though I like them but have feed trucks arriving 24 hours a day and stock trucks late at night at times.
Cameras are only hood to give a guy the element of surprise if they're in real time. I'd have them record on a loop but often they'll get tossed in court.
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Post by Oatking on Feb 28, 2021 16:40:39 GMT -6
With the way the grain market is now you need good cameras or some kind of alarm and it also is wise to have one central grain storage yard. Sometimes that is not easy to do. I know going into this years crop production with high prices i locked in I will be extra vigilant about crop theft. I am surprised to not hear of any stories in the western producer yet. I put crop confetti in my canola and beans and buy it at a local printing place. Have any of you guys heard of that actually working. Any super b trailer owned by who knows who can show up to dump these days.
20 dollars a bushel of nexera canola times 1800 bushels is no small problem. Grain theft may be a problem this year, I hope not.
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Post by garyfunk on Feb 28, 2021 17:01:05 GMT -6
Big dog(s) and beware of dog signs keeps out most thieves (not sure exactly why they are scared of dogs? Too many bad experiences?).
And I agree Oatking, grain theft could be a problem. I know they'd have to bring their own auger to any remote bins we have.
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rcyung
Junior Member
Posts: 85
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Post by rcyung on Feb 28, 2021 18:32:01 GMT -6
In these parts the crooks just shoot the dog. They actually ran over and killed my neighbour’s dog last year. We’ve been three times in 14 months which is way too much for me. 2 AM or 4Pm doesn’t seem to matter. We caught the one in the middle of the night. Ended up with a totalled vehicle out of it , Indian young offender, so no consequence for him. Next one was 4 pm. I left the yard for twenty minutes, staying on the home quarter. Come back to the yard and two Indians were trying to pry open the house door. They hightailed it and I pursued on the quad but couldn’t keep up. Got back home to find they had looted the shop. Had to convince the cops to come and supplied them with good photos. Nothing done about it. So I installed steel gates on our driveways. Two months later about 2 in the afternoon we’re working in the shop and a cop walks in. They are chasing two Indians in a stolen truck and they cut through our standing ripe barley. Brother took the cop on his quad in pursuit and I went and opened the gate to let more cops through. That one ended up with a very injured and life changing event for a cop. They arrested the female on scene and the male the next day. He had been terrorizing the neighborhood for many years but the judges and lawyers kept letting him out. I firmly believe that without our gates we would have been hit again. Puts a stop to the easy in easy out. The local fire hall had their compound and shed broken into in December by people on snowmobiles. They stole all the premium gasoline for the jaws of life etc. My attitude has really changed the last couple years and now am not so nice to trespassers including those on snowmobiles who find themselves in my yard or even too close to my yardsite. Chased down two groups of them so far this winter and let ‘em have it. No need to cut my fence and run over my brother’s bale rows. As I told the one cop, anyone in my yard that’s not invited will be viewed as a combatant.
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Post by Beerwiser on Feb 28, 2021 18:52:15 GMT -6
How far away are you from town/reserve Rcyung? That is ridiculous to have so many problems with theft. A note with the beware dog sign, get a guard dog on duty sign instead. If your dog does bite the bastard your ass is a bit more covered with the guard dog sign as that is what the dog is for. That was told to me by a cop or lawyer or someone more important than me.
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Post by meskie on Feb 28, 2021 19:37:15 GMT -6
How far away are you from town/reserve Rcyung? That is ridiculous to have so many problems with theft. A note with the beware dog sign, get a guard dog on duty sign instead. If your dog does bite the bastard your ass is a bit more covered with the guard dog sign as that is what the dog is for. That was told to me by a cop or lawyer or someone more important than me. That’s one of those laws that really bugs me. Your coming into my yard and my dogs territory it should be on you to not let the dog get you. Not the other way around. If nobody is around leave and come back when somebody is if you need to talk to me. |
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Post by cptusa on Feb 28, 2021 20:02:12 GMT -6
If someone shot my dog that would be the last dog they shot.
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