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Post by Oatking on Jan 12, 2021 9:40:25 GMT -6
Btc vs Tulip bulbs....... Its hard to imagine now how a society could go into depression over a flower. Same fate for btcs?
One thing that is working for bitcoins is more governments around the world are aligning themselves more equally in relations. Its still to early to tell yet but a universal monetary system may favor equality, just what some elites are aiming for.
ANOTHER example of a technology that could have no value is the internet. It is a matter of what is in fashion for the times!
Interesting how gold, silver, bonze, and land has survived the test of time.
Here is another thought ,could bitcoins replace the standard swiss francs as a safe heaven for money. What needs to happen for that to come to fruition?
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Post by northernfarmer on Jan 12, 2021 11:03:37 GMT -6
Probably not a good comparison example between Bitcoin and Bre-X but the smoke and mirrors that took place and even took pension funds for a ride I believe as it was assumed there was a value there and that value was gold, but when the scam was exposed the value ( because there was none in plain old ordinary rock ) was zero. I don't know what to make of Bitcoin, it can only have value as long as its perceived to but what happens when its no longer perceived to due to unforeseen future developments. The same holds true for electronic or paper money, its only a perceived value based on what the countries Central Bank claims it to have. In any event Bre-X was an interesting story indeed.
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Post by kenmb on Jan 13, 2021 11:05:07 GMT -6
Bitcoin is a confusing thing.
If we talk a monetary system with digital currency then all other crypto (ie digital) currencies will be worthless. I think that is a hard point to argue. A crypto will hold value the same as a tulip did, for if digital currencies that are recognized (ie rule of law) are in play, then non backed digital currencies will have no point of existence. Its like me running around with script from the company store and trying to buy stuff elsewhere and saying "yes, this was actually worth something so take it now".
Keep in mind that digital and crypto means same thing.
And a future where there is no authoritatively backed digital currency, the question then becomes how long bitcoin remains a store of value. It does not function as a currency. And so it is not the ultimate answer. It is really a collectors item. And those do have value. So perhaps it has a life in that regard. People do collect things and use them as status symbols. So that is why they may carry a $ assignment, but as a usable thing (what real value is derived from), it is worthless.
That stuff I posted the other day from another thread about bitcoin being created to transfer money is an interesting angle and I think may be correct. If so, it remains that way and has value until authorities say so. Yes, btc can be shutdown. It is software, exchanges can be found and shut, people can be forced to use and trade it underground. I suspect it's value to the average person drops immensely if that happens.
Basically, I think the only reason btc exists to compete is because it is allowed to. And the fact it trades on the futures exchange is more evidence that it is a tool the people in control are using. They have a reason, and that reason is likely not to make you have fair market access to something.
As to digital currencies, that guy that does the presentations on white boards and likes using GSDT (good stuff drink time) had a good one on how digital currencies work. Nothing good comes of it for you and I. SWMan will remember his name and a guy can then find it. It was posted before and that's how I saw the vid. In such a system bitcoin will not be used or allowed to exist, that is a guarantee. It is a system set up for maximum control.
Speculate, yes. Any other reason to treat it as anything other than pure speculation I believe is going to be reaching if a guy really understands the possible futures.
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Post by SWMan on Jan 13, 2021 11:28:20 GMT -6
Good post Ken. The guys name is George Gammon.
If you want to collect something then gold coins would be a much safer item, even if it's worthless someday at least you could stare at it...ha ha
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Post by cptusa on Jan 13, 2021 16:28:35 GMT -6
Good post Ken. The guys name is George Gammon. If you want to collect something then gold coins would be a much safer item, even if it's worthless someday at least you could stare at it...ha ha I like bars. If they're worthless someday they still make the cool clank sound when you stack them. |
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ddf
New Member
Posts: 18
Likes: 14
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Bitcoins
Jan 13, 2021 17:46:31 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by ddf on Jan 13, 2021 17:46:31 GMT -6
Where bitcoins gets really complicated to me, is the mining process.
A couple months ago there was an auction sale in Saskatoon. They had two or three pallets of bitcoin mining machines.
They sold way under new price, I imagine somebody got beat up pretty bad on them.
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Post by SWMan on Jan 14, 2021 0:07:28 GMT -6
Good post Ken. The guys name is George Gammon. If you want to collect something then gold coins would be a much safer item, even if it's worthless someday at least you could stare at it...ha ha I like bars. If they're worthless someday they still make the cool clank sound when you stack them. $170 to $60,000 price range on the gold bars there. Are you sure you didn't typo and mean to say "clink" instead of "clank"...ha ha |
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Bitcoins
Jan 14, 2021 8:13:54 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by cptusa on Jan 14, 2021 8:13:54 GMT -6
I'll leave it to the imagination!
Keep in mind silver bars make the same sound for less money...
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Post by Oatking on Jan 14, 2021 14:14:16 GMT -6
Hey capt, heres a thought, is it possible the U S government could make Gold illegal to own again and than buy it back and raise the price to pay for the countries debt like in past history.
If government owns the gold, what becomes of currencies like bitcoins and paper money.
Will history repeat itself, just curious, what was the penalty for holding gold bars before it was legal.
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Post by northernfarmer on Jan 14, 2021 14:36:35 GMT -6
Good post Ken. The guys name is George Gammon. If you want to collect something then gold coins would be a much safer item, even if it's worthless someday at least you could stare at it...ha ha I like bars. If they're worthless someday they still make the cool clank sound when you stack them. A little throw back to see what gold bars look like
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Post by cptusa on Jan 14, 2021 15:57:55 GMT -6
Hey capt, heres a thought, is it possible the U S government could make Gold illegal to own again and than buy it back and raise the price to pay for the countries debt like in past history. If government owns the gold, what becomes of currencies like bitcoins and paper money. Will history repeat itself, just curious, what was the penalty for holding gold bars before it was legal. Well here is a quick mathematical explanation/example: If I have 10 guns and the government comes and takes 9 guns how many does that leave me? 30 because I lied to the commie bastards to start with. With that logic: If I hold gold and the government doesn't know where its at, does the gold really exist? |
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Post by kenmb on Jan 14, 2021 16:37:06 GMT -6
Cryptos back up today, gold and silver flat. That pretty much gives you things in a nutshell.
Bitcoin looks like a good speculative option yet. If you have the stomach for it. Just don't get caught up in the "store of value" angle. Was reading about speculation that the Great Reset may include confiscation of savings. If you wipe out debt, then you take savings also and make everyone equal. The theory is that debt elimination is done by savings confiscation. Probably the best summary of a savings confiscation plan is that if you think political riots were bad, it would probably be much worse under this scenario. So not likely to happen. As the more intelligent commenters said - it's the poor/middle class that have savings to confiscate, the rich have assets that can't be taken in the same manner.
But that brings me to the idea floated that government may confiscate RRSPs/401s. Not so much take them from you, but that you don't control them anymore. The government controls the account under your name and may even have a prescribed path for where those funds are applied, meaning the government basically is managing it. That allows the government to steer funds where they are needed to save the economy. Maybe tell you when you can withdraw.
Point being, there are a few crazy ideas out there. And it's a crazy world. Which means a crazy idea in a crazy world can become a reasonable action. That is why things like bitcoin can still go higher. Flood the media with such stories and lots of people will be looking for this new technology to hide their wealth away from such control. But again the reminder that if it is electronic, it can be traced, tracked, blocked, hacked or disappear.
And that gets us to the gold confiscation story. I expect it is possible. Don't see why it couldnt happen. Government can ban sale or purchase of it. And if I can't sell it easily then it won't hold any value trading amongst two people in exchange for goods. Don't know if government agents will come to your door. I got a bad cocaine habit, and gambling habit and piss poor in the canoe also and when I combine all three on a long night I find my gold coins disappear pretty fast so not many left to be confiscated.
So gold can effectively trade at zero.
However central banks hold gold as a tier 1 reserve. And people who hold real wealth also hold gold. And it is quite common knowledge of countries like China and Russia acquiring gold. So, they are either acquiring to make it unavailable, or acquiring in knowledge it will become more widely used. I am thinking a new system with the Great Reset will include gold. The peasants will have their script/digital currency and the truly rich will use gold openly rather than hidden. Because I think gold is used a lot more right now than we think, it is just hidden to keep people understanding what is real value. The peasants get their electronic prison, the wealthy move about freely with real wealth and use it openly. The movies John Wick 1 and 2 are interesting in that regard. And no, it wasn't the movie that gave me this thought, the movie just shows it in play. I think we have a two tier world, we just don't see it. Part of the Great Reset will remove a lot of the pretense I think because the real wealthy would find life less tedious if they could do away with the deception.
With all the possibilities mentioned here, holding some physical metal is a good idea. Land and assets are good. As one guy wrote, centuries ago people had estates, land holdings and they had stores of gold and art. If trouble came to their region they packed their coins, took the paintings from the frames and hit the road. They could then establish themselves in a new place or eventually come back and reclaim or repurchase what property they left behind. It's good to have transportable wealth. The question is, is crypto currencies a modern solution to this old way, or is the old way still the preferred way.
And with all that said, platinum is interesting the last few days. I always notice when it moves differently than gold and silver. Many basic reasons why it should be priced 2 to 3x more than gold. Yet it isn't. Is that because it is in fact worth less than gold, or does this dystopian world make it that way, and therefore can change.
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Post by kenmb on Jan 15, 2021 9:07:15 GMT -6
Figured today was a good time to see what George had to say on the subject. Once again he does a good job of laying out the basics without telling you exactly how to go run your life. In this video he goes through the evolution of banking and also goes on to say why a gold standard can't work. I agree with what he is saying. The fiat currency system works fine, it is the corruption of the system via privately owned and operated central banking is where the problem lies. It is why I keep mentioning the point of asking why the Central Bank of a country is not owned/controlled by the government of the country. The answer you are given is government can be corrupted and mismanage the economy through bad policy. The key point missed is that an unelected and unaccountable entity doing it instead can make the same mistakes and there is no redress available. Which control arrangement makes more sense. People saying a gold standard will never work don't understand what is really being discussed. A gold standard is not the point. The point is to put something in place that keeps people in check. Laws and regulations can do that, but as we can see, they can also be easily ignored. A combination of real assets like gold or bitcoin plus laws and regulations make things harder to corrupt. Things really went off the rails when the gold standard was removed yet central banking existed before and after that moment. And George considers gold and bitcoin the same in this video. Which I would agree based on one premise. Bitcoin never existed before it was invented. Being that it is software that was created, it means that a new software can be invented again and again. And if it functions better then it can be adopted, but that expands the money supply. Therefore the only thing that stops this from happening is regulation. Some kind of centralized authority to say only btc will hold value and nothing else electronic can compete. So the attribute of btc being a decentralized asset relies on a centralized authority to make it so. Consider that. However using an existing known asset like gold, oil, seashells means it is already defined and in existence and in a limited supply. There is no likelyhood of unobtainium being discovered in a decade and thus being considered money. We have discovered pretty much all things. Unless we have found out how to turn lead into gold, if we have, then gold will no longer work. If there is an infinite versions of software then there is an infinite potential for replacement for bitcoin, unless someone sets the law and regulates via authority. So more of a presentation on evolution of banking. And knowing what exists now is how to know what the possibilities are. www.georgegammon.com/why-gold-and-bitcoin-dont-matter-shocking-insights-revealed/ |
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Post by Oatking on Jan 16, 2021 9:35:15 GMT -6
Read an article on CBC where an early btc investor from 2012 made incredible wealth. Problem is he forgot his password to his bitcoin account and had ten chances to try a pass word. He currently has two tries left and if that fails his 200 and some million is lost forever.
Oh lord not another password forgotten! IS it possible to store bitcoin software in a safety deposit box. Maybe a dumb question but there has to be something physical in a bitcoin transaction that can be traced. That would be terrible if you got a dementia in life and lost track of your savings! That will have to be backed up somehow.
The article mentioned much more money is trapped in infinity because of forgotten passwords.
Interesting , with all this scourge plandemic stuff going around some schools and our daycare is demanding electronic transactions. The reason they said is they are afraid of getting the scourge from paper money or a paper cheque. Maybe this bitcoin business is gaining traction for ease of transaction as long as you manage your passwords!
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Post by kenmb on Jan 21, 2021 9:51:48 GMT -6
I have always found it curious how certain things become "news" stories. Almost like it is purposely brought into your home. Bitcoin is the example for this thread. Remember in the last big run up of btc a year or two ago it was news about a guy buying a home with btc, and then news of people getting wages paid in btc. Is that really news? A guy can pay cash for a house and the seller goes and puts it all into btc. Or an employee gets paid in currency and then goes and buys btc with his wage. Hardly news, but for some reason it is. I wonder why that happens. Well, actually I don't wonder, I know exactly why. It is why I keep coming back to the idea of a psy-op, because such news is exactly that. Same applies to a guy who lost his password, is this really news because it involves btc, or do we need to hear about the guy that lost his password to access his on-line vehicle licensing account also.
Going to be watching what the precious metals markets do the next few days, and cryptos also. Platinum is still doing things that catch my eye. If the world is one big financial $hit show, then watching what happens in this area may give some insight about what really may be taking place. As always, the best time to buy metals was 6 months earlier, the next best time is now. I don't have the stomach to say the same applies to cryptos. It could hold true, but I don't do much for speculating these days, I am more about preserving wealth.
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