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Post by northernfarmer on Jan 8, 2021 20:39:58 GMT -6
Ironically both those Schumacher models you listed Albertabuck are on "clearance" for a much reduced price at Princess Auto although it states no online stock nor any stock at my local store. If one was interested in one of them it could be checked out at your local store to see if they have anything in stock. Not sure who all sells that brand and if others would have stock they have on sale or not. I see on the schumacher website that the carry model I have is not there either and a digital face one instead with a similar rating would take its place.
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Post by torriem on Jan 8, 2021 21:08:24 GMT -6
Mine was a John Deere TY25862, but it looks like it was made by Schumacher. Here's a parts list: www.centurytool.net/TY25862_John_Deere_Battery_Charger_Parts_List_s/412039.htmThe rectifier diodes are discontinued but I can get equivalent diodes for cheap elsewhere. I'm tempted to put the parts together and rebuild the thing. haha. I have come around to the idea of a small, automatic charger for charging up cars and trucks and even tractors. I've never been a fan of high amp charging or boosting.
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Post by bob123 on Jan 9, 2021 2:37:23 GMT -6
A high amp one is still nice to have, like when you hop in a peice of equipment and the lights got left on and you dont want to wait or something
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Post by Albertabuck on Jan 9, 2021 9:15:12 GMT -6
Ironically both those Schumacher models you listed Albertabuck are on "clearance" for a much reduced price at Princess Auto although it states no online stock nor any stock at my local store. If one was interested in one of them it could be checked out at your local store to see if they have anything in stock. Not sure who all sells that brand and if others would have stock they have on sale or not. I see on the schumacher website that the carry model I have is not there either and a digital face one instead with a similar rating would take its place. Damm those were some good prices for whomever picked one up. I noticed everywhere I looked online as well that those mechanical type machines are now discontinued, I'm gonna guess must have happened not that long ago that they are still being shown on sale to clear out old stock. I think you have been digging into things more than me, just curious, those Alliance ones you posted the link for earlier, are they still selling a mechanical version or they all gone computerized as well?
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Post by northernfarmer on Jan 9, 2021 9:34:09 GMT -6
Now that's a good question AB as I've only had that brand name pointed out to me by retailers selling that brand and honestly don't know anything about them other then that. I've only assumed since some of the models I have seen appear conventional from the outside that they have not changed but I haven't a clue what is inside that blue paint. The model that would work best for mobility for what I do in the yard and have the best capacity appears to be that model 6010B and according to that catalogue I had posted they want over 700.00 for it, that would be why I don't happen to own one !.
Torriem, I am curious as to what brand and model of portable booster you have as the only experience I have had with a portable as been a complete flop. Its a "Cat" branded unit that I expect was bought at Costco and got it on a Christmas gift exchange about three years ago and I wasn't even able to boost a pickup, it doesn't seem to hold a charge or has no ability, whatever the case is. It has a little compressor built into it ... its far too much like a typical cheap piece of Chinese junk with what its performed like. I don't know if I was supposed to keep the darned thing plugged in all the time or what as I bet its worthless now, have not had it plugged in for some time to give it a recharge so the battery is more then likely toast now. I highly doubt it has a lithium battery.
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Post by torriem on Jan 9, 2021 9:54:40 GMT -6
We have this boost pack: no.co/gb150. It's quite pricey. Our local auto electric place recommended it. Most of the time it works amazingly well if you can get a good connection, or put it on the starter. We've boosted tractors and semis with it. We use the booster pack fairly regularly. It takes a couple of days to charge up completely with the usb cord. If you need to charge it faster, it can plug into 12V lighter plug and charge in about an hour. Somehow it must use capacitors to build up power levels. You can hear it clicking when it's in boost mode. Sometimes it completely fails. The other day my half ton with two batteries was dead. Boost pack wasn't enough for it. I think with two dead batteries and quite small wires from the starter to the battery the booster couldn't build up enough voltage. I suspect if I'd been able to stick it right on the starter it would have gone. So we aren't getting rid of booster cables any time soon! Just another useful tool. Not sure how long it will last for. Lithium batteries wear out after a few years, and they don't like being stored fully charged, but that's how we all use them in all our devices.
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Post by northernfarmer on Jan 9, 2021 11:18:33 GMT -6
I've seen them but never been around one being used, the price is insane on those units but obviously it does work then like you said. As to some situations not working well in trying to boost and that goes for battery charger boosters of the type ( like you bumped with your tractor ) that are only relying on electricity and don't have a bank of batteries, the problem is there isn't the steady high voltage with amperage to back it up and overcome the sink hole of dead batteries that are connected. There are times that its better off to either have a tractor or truck that has 3 or 4 batteries to boost a low voltage piece of equipment or better yet replace the batteries rather then risk an explosion with the amount of power and gasses that would come out of the unhealthy batteries. I can see as well having stupid huge diameter diameter booster cables and using more then one set to get the current flowing through as that clamp connection would be the weak link.
I see that same company makes a larger one yet and its really insanely priced at 1800.00 in the US, no.co/gb500
Here is a promotional video that I chuckle at as you see various battery cables are green with corrosion back into the crimp of the copper cables, that's a whole other topic about poorly made batteries that ooze and ruin what had been good cables.
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Post by torriem on Jan 9, 2021 18:27:18 GMT -6
Yeah a good investment I made some years ago was a nice pair of 1 AWG booster cables. With the normal size cables, boosting a semi or a farm tractor requires two sets of cables usually. And two trucks to boost from helps too.
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Post by Albertabuck on Jan 9, 2021 18:48:48 GMT -6
Its not just heavy cables you need, they gotta have good clamps on the ends too. In my experience I have found this style work best for most applications including automotive. Note the link I'm posting I think says they're for 400 amp, get the higher rated ones, I just am using the link for reference. The trouble with some of the other style clamps is, some the clamping force just isn't there, and others with serrated jaws are bad for chewing up cable ends and on some ends or terminals, there is minimal contact. At Raydan we had a booster cart set up, was an old cutting torch cart with wheel barrow tires on it and a 8D battery connected to a cart mounted charger. The cables were I forget what number of welding cable, about the size of your finger and we had welding ground clamps with modified jaws on the ends of them. Now all them old Macks had lead post battery set ups so they worked good for that purpose. Boosting some side post battery vehicle, not so good lol. www.grainger.ca/en/product/p/WDS70234?cm_mmc=PPC:+Google+PLA
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Post by northernfarmer on Jan 9, 2021 19:28:54 GMT -6
I still haven't gotten myself a proper large size set of booster cables, made do with various 4 gauge copper ones and doubling them up in some situations. What I find frustrating now in looking at booster cables is the games they are playing with what they refer to as copper coated aluminum cables and have fairly large sized ones with that theme as they know they are tricking customers into buying something they think they are getting a good deal on but its a totally inferior product, never mind the pathetic excuse for clamps they typically put on some of these cables. No doubt they put the copper coating on the wire to fool a guy who looks at the bare wire as it indeed does look like copper but the physical weight isn't there when one picks up a set of them and then that way they can legally use the word copper on the packaging as its not a lie, its bullshit but yet not a lie. Also most of the typical booster cable clamps don't have an internal strap that goes from the one side to the other so that both jaws are truly capable of carrying the amperage.
This reminded me of many years ago a friend had called me out of desperation during the winter ( well back before a cell phone was a thing ) as he sat in a local small town at the end of the business day and couldn't seem to find someone that could get his pickup started by boosting him as the only guy he found had a pair of cheap small cables ( they would have been copper though, just very small ) and they were not large enough to carry the amperage to get his pickup started but he said the cables would just jump when he turned the key and in fact heated the cables/clamps up. Isn't that weird, so much power trying to go through an undersized wire that it will cause it to stiffen up. Anyway I hopped in a pickup ( with small rated alternator but a decent battery ) and took my 4 gauge copper booster cables with and he was not that hopeful but it cranked over not bad and all was good. Obviously large engines and 4 gauge cables are not going to cut it but if given time one can get some charge into a discharged battery if they are any good yet, although frying an alternator on a vehicle by boosting happens fairly easy as its so overloaded and if its idling the alternator fan isn't going fast enough to cool.
Yup, those parrot ones you linked to AB are similar to ones I have bought to replace on a set of 4 gauge cables that some of the clamps no longer functioned as the spring was shot.
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Post by torriem on Jan 9, 2021 22:27:44 GMT -6
Copper-coated aluminum wire isn't always a complete scam. It has its advantages, but only for AC power, not DC.
Might make sense to build your own pair of booster cables using welding cable.
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Post by kenmb on Jan 10, 2021 10:22:40 GMT -6
It's been a while since I checked, but as I understand battery charges, the difference between say the 2A and 10A setting is a higher voltage tap on the transformer. Higher voltage into a fixed load (battery) means higher current. This is easy enough to confirm by hooking a multimeter to your battery to read volts while changing switch positions on the charger. And so, on a 50A boost setting,it would make sense that some parallel circuitry is also brought into play for added current demands.
NF, interesting that you noted the cable movement when boosting. That is magnetic forces at work. Pass a current through a conductor and a magnetic field is generated, it's how electric motors work. Put two conductors side by side and they will repell from each other or attract depending on the magnetic flux. The higher the current, the greater the forces. During an electrical fault in an industrial system, its not just the damage from the arc that matters, it's the electrical stresses and movement of cables, bus bars, structural supports that matter. A 30 second video of a popular KOZ block brand of cable bracing used. The cables are secured not to make them look pretty, rather to keep them from being much like a tow rope coming loose under pull when fault current passes through cables. They don't say how much current is applied in these tests but we design typically for 20,000 to 50,000A fault withstand rating, so video is likely in that area.
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Post by northernfarmer on Jan 10, 2021 10:22:55 GMT -6
You are right that a proper copper coating can be beneficial for some applications such as communication wiring etc but low voltage high amperage loads from what I gather doesn't do much and you can bet that the amount of copper they put on the wire strands is so minimal as I rather doubt the wiring has to meet any sort of code for booster cables. Sure, if given enough size aluminum can pass current but it also has that issue of expanding and shrinking with heat and I wonder at what point the crimped connection on the clamp would fail. I've watched video's of tests being conducted ( pun intended ! ) with heavy copper wire that is bare and using it almost as an over grown welding rod and its unreal what copper can withstand and melt down steel etc. Part of the issue is getting copper cable that has a good quality low temperature rated insulation and then putting on clamp ends that are worth putting on as the good ones get very expensive. If one was doing a lot of high demand boosting it would be a no brainer to have a set like that but otherwise its questionable and certainly wouldn't want to leave a set like that just laying around in the back of a pickup around sticky fingers.
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Post by northernfarmer on Jan 10, 2021 10:39:30 GMT -6
Ken, that video reminds me of a comment I made in the compressor thread about using a proper magnetic switch or rated manual switch to power up the compressor circuit vs using a breaker panel switch. The issue of arc flash and causing death or horrible injuries if standing at the breaker panel and flipping a high amperage breaker that has an instant load being powered in that moment. I'll watch electricians standing off to the side facing away from the breaker panel when they are flipping on a larger breaker "just in case". Like this short video demonstrates although it doesn't get into any explanations of how and whys of arc flash.
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Post by kenmb on Jan 10, 2021 11:08:39 GMT -6
Don't want to get off topic much NF, but throw these things in now and then so some people understand the hazards. That 200A 120/240v panel at home is not likely going to electrocute you when you have the cover off and messing around putting in a breaker or pulling wires for another wall plug. But you may have permanent burn damage or loose your eyesight permanently from the copper splatter blowing into your face if you screw up. That panel in the video is 100,000A fault current and likely driven at 480v. Small panels, like a 200A house panel is probably 10,000A if you short the two phases in your face. Not nearly as explosive as that video, but still not going to be pretty. A tingle in your fingers is the least of your concerns if you put a screwdriver across the two bar bus bars.
One of my many jobs was rebuilding the inside a 13.8 KV breaker cell when a site electrician shorted a bus bar to ground. 13800v fed a fault of around 25,000A. I was scraping his knee skin off the metal floor. I worked with the guy quite a bit before he did it, and he lived and I saw him at the mine a year later but he had no desire to work on live equipment anymore, or on the tools actually. I came to learn about politics and diplomancy through my career when being asked what I think happened when being the guy to fix these things. A farm kid sees things differently after many years of paying attention to how business really works.
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