absk
New Member
Posts: 17 Likes: 8
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Post by absk on Nov 22, 2020 15:44:57 GMT -6
As the title states I would like your guys go to on bearings? I’ve been going though the combine and I feel I should be getting better life out of some of them specifically the bearing at the top of the clean grain elevator that seems to always be in grain. I’ve tried ones from case (whatever brand was cheapest that week) ntn and fafnir and every winter I’m changing it out, not because the bearing has completely failed but you can tell the seal is starting to go and it won’t make another season. I typically try to replace bearings with fafnir when the time comes.
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Post by Beerwiser on Nov 22, 2020 19:43:33 GMT -6
I am not too particular on the brand of bearing, but I am particular on where they are made. Mexican and chinese are pretty much junk. American and Japan have been good so far on some pretty high pressure speed applications.
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Post by northernfarmer on Nov 22, 2020 20:37:19 GMT -6
I don't have a magical answer either but will say if its a bearing location that from factory had the metal shield on both sides I try to replace it with the same thing due to foreign matter mechanically rubbing against the sides or at least that is the idea of those shields I assume. I looked up Fafnir and didn't realize they are now owned by Timken but the Fafnir branding seems to be one of the brands that has the metal shield available. I found a pdf that talks about the various seal designs they use and about the relubricated and prelubricated types and that brings up a question. The bearings you've been installing, do they have the grease holes or are they a sealed for life bearing. I just wonder if there is a difference in lube or seal type on the non greaseable bearing and if a choice to choose that one for these non lube locations. I am only guessing of course as I realize a lot of bearings have the grease holes that end up getting used in non greaseable flanges. Maybe see what seal type the bearing you have been using are equipped with and if its possible to get a better seal.
There is another issue with bearing/shaft assemblies and wondered if you have been using the same shaft time after time. Check out the diameter of the shaft where the bearing sit as its possible that the shaft has crushed and it doesn't take that much of a crushed/undersized shaft to cause the bearing to have internal forces thrown at it due to essentially be running out of round or a wobble introduced into the bearing all because of an undersized shaft. And a shaft can visually look fine and not even stand out as anything wrong with it and yet it take out bearings prematurely due to its lack of proper fitment.
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Post by Albertabuck on Nov 22, 2020 21:39:59 GMT -6
SKF, Fafnir, Toyo, Timken, forget some of the others. As Beer mentioned, try to stick with USA or Japanese, but then my brother texted me a pick a while back of a Chinese Timken he ended up with, go figure... RBL is one of the better lower end offshore ones it seems, have had some good service with them. If at all possible I often will always even change up to a greasable bearing, one thing about having a large amount of stuff to rob parts off does supply greasable flangettes as I do keep a fairly large supply of standard sized and common bearings on hand. With that said, the grease can dry out over time, condensation can be an issue as well during storage. I also own several different needles and such for greasing sealed bearings, have found if you don't over fill them and are patient to let it completely cure, on bearings you only grease maybe every few years or more, and run at high speed, carefully using silicon you can seal up a hole drilled in the side shield. Don't want to use too much as you don't want a gob inside the bearing.
In some of the comparisons I have seen, most common is the cheaper bearings have less and or smaller balls, a plastic separator and often insufficient grease.
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Post by SWMan on Nov 22, 2020 23:15:58 GMT -6
I also look at where they are made, prefer Japanese or American made. Running some on the drill which are CNH bearings made in Slovakia and they hold up really well. Some of the planter/drill bearings are Chinese from Deere and CNH but made in Japan from AGCO dealer and half price, worth looking around although we shouldn't have to spend so much time to find quality stuff...
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Post by kenmb on Nov 23, 2020 8:12:55 GMT -6
Was taking some shafts off the elevators on the combine this summer to change some sprockets and stuff. Saw a couple bearings made in China. Still fine but figured would go with something else while apart. Shoulder style with grease hole in a different spot on race, turns out only Fafnir makes it so gave Applied Technologies in Regina 3 cracks at getting me the right bearing, even after showing them what I need. A month into it and finally said screw it and went to Young's (case IH dealer) to get what ever crap they were selling - and it was the Fafnir they stock.
I don't know how bad the China bearings are. Personally can't say I notice anything different in life span. But I will hunt around for other than made in China until time crunch becomes an issue.
Actually my biggest issue that is a recent development is where I can even get bearings in Regina. There is Applied Technologies and I have had a couple instances now of them not getting it right, there is Motion who I liked dealing with but now have a $200 minimum order, and Wajax which has also moved to a minimum order policy (don't remember what it is now but seems to me they are not even able to serve me now). It's almost to the point I can't get bearings without going to dealer. Both Wajax and Motion adopted these policies this summer. With Motion I can get my minimum order up by buying some roller chain or something else, it's the direction of things that bothers me, should the minimumoorder go to $500 or I need a corporate account then I am in trouble. I actually understand the minimum order idea, not against it as long as it stays where it is.
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Post by torriem on Nov 23, 2020 10:02:34 GMT -6
My local jobber says they've seen as many bearings fail from over-greasing as anything. So as I've been replacing bearings on my packer bars, I've been replacing them with greaseless non-greaseable bearings (made in Japan if I can help it). I'd be strongly tempted to use greaseless non-greaseable bearings on your elevator.
In fact, most of the bearings on Case flagship combines are the greaseless non-greaseable type and I've never lost one of those yet in 8 years. I do expect them to fail eventually of course. But they have been lasting a long time, just as long or longer than any grease-able bearing in the same application.
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Post by Beerwiser on Nov 23, 2020 10:23:55 GMT -6
I completely agree with greaseless bearings. They seem to last way longer. I can't remember off hand how many bales I have on the baler, but all but 3 bearings are geaseless. The 3 that are greaseable are ones I put on. Every sealed bearing is still factory. I also try to grease at the end of the day or at least after an hour or so of running the equipment. If it comes down to a pinch and I have no choice but to get a bearing with the hole in the race, I put one pump of grease into the bearing and seal the hole with a dab of silicone. A old parts guy told me that many years ago and knock on wood it has worked.
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Post by SWMan on Nov 23, 2020 20:01:45 GMT -6
So by greaseless bearings do you mean they just are sealed bearings with no entry for added grease? Surely they can't have no grease in them?
Big killer of bearings is washing equipment. I never wash a combine if I can absolutely help it, just blow off frequently and keep inside.
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Post by torriem on Nov 23, 2020 23:06:35 GMT -6
Correct. I should have said non-greasable bearings. They are pre-greased and sealed. As long as the seal is not breached, they seem to last a long time for me. Given the choice, for many applications I would take non-greaseable bearings over greaseable any day.
Good point about washing combines.
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Post by Albertabuck on Nov 24, 2020 9:26:20 GMT -6
I suppose the reason I am more for greasable ones, is I suspect I am running older equipment then most and it never leaves and personal experience. I've got stuff that goes back beyond the 60s. So when I am greasing sealed bearings, I'm not talking about one I just changed last year. I also do always check bearings on a machine, either with a temp gun or fingers, any sign of over heating, find out what the problem is, I don't like to wait till they start squawking or fail. Then again, most always, when I experience a failure, it was due to lack of grease. After a few years, between condensation and drying of the grease can really reduce bearing life.
Over greasing a bearing can be almost as bad as lack of grease, you need to watch what you are doing.
The washing problem is huge, not just for bearings, but ujoints and more, so many people simply don't realize what damage can be done with high pressure water.
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Post by northernfarmer on Nov 24, 2020 12:27:55 GMT -6
That is very true about old bearings and the grease finally dries up or that issue of contamination with water or dirt due to marginal seals and a greased bearing ( if its greased of course ) can push out any crap or prevent it from getting in. Having said that is actually amazing how well some sealed bearings will last in certain applications. Ujoints are a bearing after all and it seems unreal how some of the non greaseable joints can last far longer then some of the greased ones that are greased regularly.
But an example of a bearing location that I find anyway is totally idiotic to be using a sealed bearing is the shafts for the crank handle on some grain trailer brands, they put greaseable ones on the bottom of the chute by the sprockets installed into pillow blocks but go and put sealed ones up near the handle and on the other end of the shaft if its a double sided crank system into those little double flanges and those bearings will get water and crap through the seals as they sit on an angle and the crap gets past the seal. I've used a grease needle to sneak in past the seal and fill them with grease once a year and that pays big time due to the shafts turning like they were intended to vs rusty balls grinding on grit inside of a crapped out bearing. I have a feeling its next to impossible to find those little flanges designed with a grease zerk.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2020 12:32:12 GMT -6
So by greaseless bearings do you mean they just are sealed bearings with no entry for added grease? Surely they can't have no grease in them? Big killer of bearings is washing equipment. I never wash a combine if I can absolutely help it, just blow off frequently and keep inside. Definitely never let equipment get wet, swather and combine never sleep outside ever, and never washed. I have zero bearing issues or belt issues. And i have very old equipment. Grease itself will act as a seal on bearing, stop being to picky for aesthetics and let the bearing be cocooned in grease. All bearings have grease from factory, As a Mechanical Designer i always have gone to NTN bearing for design and specing out for new designs, and i have the fortunate career of having machines i designed all over the world. I find working with other engineers that because profits have taken over design so much that most applications are under build for the sake of profits. If you have a problem area there is nothing stopping you from upgrading a bearing to double ball or needle, you have to be proactive and start fixing problems for yourself, engineers are just whipped to come up with solutions that are in the company's best interest and not yours.
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